uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[subbrew]

I've not found that to be true, especially with generational UJSM. The wash will get progressively more sour. That might be a good thing, but that depends on your preference.

For a given batch it can sit with no problems although you are correct it may sour more over a few extra weeks but that certainly not harm the product. But with more sour backset you do eventually need to start some PH control to prevent stalled fermentation. So using the more sour backset (in this case the backset is the grain and what is left in the grain) will affect the following generation. That is where the oyster shells come in, using the calcium carbonate to buffer the acidity so the yeast start up and give a good fermentation on the following generation

[Saltbush Bill]

No it is not necessary to use buffers for PH control.....that includes shells.
I gave up counting at 80 generations, never once adjusted ph or took readings.
Simply use less back set if the next generation is slower to ferment than you want.
Back set is the hot slops left in the boiler after distillation...not the left over grain.
After 10 years of constant generations it's still going just fine.
Having said that ph adjustment is fine if you feel the need.......but it's incorrect to say or think that buffers or shells MUST be used.

[6 Row Joe]

No it is not necessary to use buffers for PH control.....that includes shells.
I gave up counting at 80 generations, never once adjusted ph or took readings.
Simply use less back set if the next generation is slower to ferment than you want.
Back set is the hot slops left in the boiler after distillation...not the left over grain.
After 10 years of constant generations it's still going just fine.
Having said that ph adjustment is fine if you feel the need.......but it's incorrect to say or think that buffers or shells MUST be used.

Wow! 80 generations, phenomenal. Have you backed off on the backset along the way?

[Saltbush Bill]

For years Ive only ever used about 4L of backset to a 28-30L ferment......you need to put less in as soon as you notice them getting slower...... if they ferment out faster than you want increase the amount.
Ive had slow ferments and fast ferments and just right ferments in that time
.4L in every 30L works for me ....that amount scales up without trouble. I keep two x 60L fermenters going/ alive......these days .
Im in no hurry.....got all the aged stock I need so sometimes they sit for 3-4 months between distillations

[Evil_Dark]

Because the wash gets more sour does that mean the end product is worse?......I think not.

Actually, what's the difference from a normal ferment and a sour one? Will the spirit will have a difference in the taste that idenfies normally with a sour ferment?

[Evil_Dark]

Hey guys,
Newb here. Running a 10 gal stainless pot still and have gone through 2 gen of UJSSM. Followed recipe originally as stated.

Gen 3 is currently fermenting fine. Wash batches are about 5 gal total (minus corn volume). All is generally going to plan, however Gen 3 is taking a little longer to finish. I'm on day 7, she's bubling pretty regularly and USG is 1.002 (og was 1.074), so I'm thinking I have a little longer to go. Taste is not overly sweet, but not dry. If she finishes later today, I can run it. If not I won't be able to run it till next weekend. My question is re: the yeast (bakers yeast). How long would I expect them to stay healthy If I racked the wash, replaced a little water and let them sit til I got backset to start Gen 4. Would I just need to add more yeast when it became time to ferment Gen 4?

It seems like the worst case scenario is you start over with new corn, new yeast, backset from gen 4. Or more simply, just pitch some new yeast

BTW it's currently kinda cool here in the low 40s F fwiw. I use a keg blankent to maintain a steady temp tho for the ferment btw

I've seen posts re: holding the wash for a bit and, read to place some water on yeast between generations, but haven't seen anything re: the above, where there might be an interruption btween racking, running and starting an new Gen

I apologize in advance if this has been covered. If so I missed it and will happily be redirected. I probably used the wrong search words. TIA!

Well my ferment takes longer to ferment dry than the first generation. Interesting to know that the more backset we use, the longer it may take to ferment dry, and it make sense. I wasn't measuring the qty of backset precisely, just eyeball it at +- 1 litre (in a 25L/ 6 gal bucket). I will measure precisely the next one to see if there is a difference in fermentation time. The first batch fermented dry in 4 days, at 27*C steady room temp. After few generations I was more in the 14ish days to ferment dry.
I don't recommend running it if it hasn't finished fermenting, as I would be afraid of the possible off taste of cooking yeast... Am I wrong?

[Fwapsk]

I'm also on my second gen of fermentation of this recipe. Used 2 gallons of backset for a total of 5 gallons. Used flaked corn for the first fermentation, and now using cracked corn for the top off when it is used up. I slow distilled (8.5hrs) down to 35% abv, threw out about 150ml of foretails, and collected about 5.5 liters which I will distill with the second fermentation batch when done. Bubbling started quickly but it seems quite slow right now on day 2. Only concern I have is that I used alcotel whiskey distillers yeast and didnt see the turbo word on the package until after I had pitched it. Wondering if I won't like the final product after reading all the turbo threads. Its not a 24 or 48 hr turbo yeast (it says 7 days on package) so I am hopeful it wont be too negatively impactful. I did throw a little yeast nutrient into the second ferment to help it. Cant wait to get my first sour mash distilled!

[dawgdoc1]

Hey guys,

Well my ferment takes longer to ferment dry than the first generation. Interesting to know that the more backset we use, the longer it may take to ferment dry, and it make sense. I wasn't measuring the qty of backset precisely, just eyeball it at +- 1 litre (in a 25L/ 6 gal bucket). I will measure precisely the next one to see if there is a difference in fermentation time. The first batch fermented dry in 4 days, at 27*C steady room temp. After few generations I was more in the 14ish days to ferment dry.
I don't recommend running it if it hasn't finished fermenting, as I would be afraid of the possible off taste of cooking yeast... Am I wrong?

Good to know that trend has been my experience as well. I don't plan to run it til it's done and as of this am it's still trucking just a bit slower. Thanks for the insight!

[Saltbush Bill]

The first batch fermented dry in 4 days, at 27*C steady room temp. After few generations I was more in the 14ish days to ferment dry.

Other than the first few Gens Ive never tried to get them done to quickly, 7-8 days is probably a year round average.
Mine get no artificial heating, they have to fend for them selves heat wise, so in winter they are a little slower , summer a bit faster.

I don't recommend running it if it hasn't finished fermenting, as I would be afraid of the possible off taste of cooking yeast... Am I wrong?

I let mine finish then settle for a week, then siphon reasonably carefully straight from the fermenter, I don't stress if I get a little bit of yeast.

Only concern I have is that I used alcotel whiskey distillers yeast and didnt see the turbo word on the package until after I had pitched it.

It may work out ok as a UJSSM wash is a fairly low ABV wash......that should help a bit.

I did throw a little yeast nutrient into the second ferment to help it.

You don't need any added nutrients in UJ, the grains provide enough.
Over the years Ive only ever added a pinch of Epsom Salts "Magnesium Sulfate".

[Fwapsk]

Over the years Ive only ever added a pinch of Epsom Salts "Magnesium and Sulfate".

Thanks for the feedback! How do you know when or if to add Epson Salts?

[Saltbush Bill]

That gets added each time....its good for healthy yeast cells.

[bcook608]

That gets added each time....its good for healthy yeast cells.

SB, what kind of flavor do you get from this? Is it just a sweet corny neutral?
I have about 10 gallons fermenting right now and if it tastes anything like it smells, I'm in trouble. Might not be able to keep it around long enough to age it.

[NZChris]

I have about 10 gallons fermenting right now and if it tastes anything like it smells, I'm in trouble. Might not be able to keep it around long enough to age it.

You might have a common, easily fixed, infection. Describe it, or search the forum for your description.

[bcook608]

Oh, it's not an infection. I think it smells delicious!
But what will/should it taste like when its done?

[NZChris]

Definitely not neutral the way I cut it. Mine tastes like the variety of corn I used, delicious as a narrow cut young white dog and as wide cut if oaked and aged. If you want neutral, UJSSM isn't a good choice.

[bcook608]

No, I'm definitely going for flavor. UJSSM was just something convenient and was something I could throw together while I was waiting for my other AG batch to ferment. I should be running that this weekend. then next weekend I should be ready for the UJSSM.

I'm a bourbon guy, so I've saved a few T&T recipes that I want to try out/modify for my tastes.

[NZChris]

UJSSM is a good product for practicing doing cuts before you do your first AGs, so do your homework before you charge the still.

[bcook608]

Sounds good! Thank you!

[bcook608]

So i went and made up two 5 gallon batches of this and ran the one of first batch yesterday. After dissolving the sugar in the back set and adding to the fermenter, I'm noticing a slight but distinct "hard Boiled egg" smell coming from the airlock. It's not strong, and it doesn't smell "rotten", but I notice it when I walk by the fermenter. Did I screw up somewhere? I was careful to keep everything clean and sanitized and the only way I deviated from the recipe is that I added a small amount of Ferm Solutions 927 yeast because even at good mashing Temps around 85 degrees f the ferment was rather slow. I suspected it was due to the yeast being old.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Saltbush Bill]

I doubt anything is wrong, Its a very forgiving recipe.

I was careful to keep everything clean and sanitized

I wouldnt worry to much about that , my UJ fermenters have been in constant use for about ten years now, I gave them a squirt with the garden hose about 5 years ago.

the ferment was rather slow.

How did you judge that ? watching the airlock or some other way?

[bcook608]

It was slow in reference to the other mashes I've done. Took off slow and didn't ferment with as much vigor as some of the others. Probably not a good metric for judging, but that was my thought process.

I read that giving it a slow stir would help get rid of the smell, but it seems to only have lessened the intensity. Hopefully it won't come across in the distillate. Also, some of the floating corn had turned red, have you ever had that happen?

Thanks for getting back to me, I feel much less worried about it

[bcook608]

Also the first generation was sitting almost 2 weeks

[Saltbush Bill]

You can let the wash sit for months without harm if need be......as long at it's airlocked.
Possibly you used to much backset and that is slowing the ferment.
Personaly I never use more than 4L in a 28-30L wash.
Even if it's slow it still should finish.....just give it time.

[bcook608]

First Gen didn't have any backset, but I put a gallon back into the 5 gallon 2nd Gen. We'll see how she goes! Thanks for the tips!

[Corn Cracker]

My ph dropped on my first round to the high 4s and dropped even more on the 2nd down to 3.3 and took 2 weeks to get the sg to 0, i added baking soda after i mixed up the 3rd yesterday, it foamed up and almost over the edge but that got the ph up to 4.8 so i left it there. Can't help with the egg smell, all i got was the sour smell

[Fwapsk]

That gets added each time....its good for healthy yeast cells.

I'm fermenting around 6 gallons each time. Should I add like half a teaspoon of Epsom Salts?

I'm finishing ferment #4 now and already I have many compliments on this corn whiskey. It really is good stuff!

[Canuckwoods]

I was running a batch through a stripping run and about 10 mins into the run (60%) it went from crystal clear to cloudy then it went clear again after about 10 mins (50%)
Never had that happened before any ideas? it did not puke.

[subbrew]

I would guess you getting some carry over, a little spit up, just not a full puke. Other option is corn oil, perhaps this corn was a bit different

[bcook608]

My ph dropped on my first round to the high 4s and dropped even more on the 2nd down to 3.3 and took 2 weeks to get the sg to 0, i added baking soda after i mixed up the 3rd yesterday, it foamed up and almost over the edge but that got the ph up to 4.8 so i left it there. Can't help with the egg smell, all i got was the sour smell

The egg smell ended up dissipating so I guess I won't worry about it. Haven't had it come back in the generation I'm running now. Probably a sulphur spike.

[Saltbush Bill]

it did not puke.

How do you know it did not puke?.......I see no other reason why the output could or would change colour.

My ph dropped on my first round to the high 4s and dropped even more on the 2nd down to 3.3 and took 2 weeks to get the sg to 0, i added baking soda after i mixed up the 3rd yesterday, it foamed up and almost over the edge but that got the ph up to 4.8 so i left it there. Can't help with the egg smell, all i got was the sour smell

I don't know why you blokes fuss so much over ph and such.
I've had the same UJSSM running generation after generation for ten years and don't even own a PH meter.
If its fermenting to slow don't use so much backset next time........if it's going faster than you want add more backset to the next generation.
Why make something so simple so hard.