SO2 or H2S

[Stonecutter]

5 gallons of store bought grape juice (I have used this same brand before and the ingredients don’t list anything but asorbic acid and water as additives)
1 fresh packet of safale s-04 yeast (first time use; usually I use 1118)
No nutrients or sugar added.
OG 1068
Fermented very nice in roughly 10 days. I never punched the cap down. Room temp was between 68-72F
I let it sit for about two weeks after the airlock stopped.
Finished dry, I racked it and noticed a strong sulphur-like odor (think matches NOT rotten eggs).
I let it settle for 3 more days and put it in the boiler. The sulphur smell wasn’t as bad. I use a spigot to empty my fermenter so I figure between the first rack and then dumping it into the boiler I aerated enough… I should have dumped it down the drain the way it smelled but I decided to try and run it just to see if it came out ok. My still is SS but I do have two rolls of copper mesh in the riser. I ran a mild reflux like I usually do and after my fores and heads were tossed I collected about 12oz. of 85%, this was actually surprising as the still usually produce 70-75% I’m this setup. This first keeper jar smelled great. The second jar wreaked like matches. The third jar starts and the smell is still present. Then I notice my reflux boil has dissipated from the sight glass and my still ain’t producing!? I shut everything down and rinse my equipment off with hot water. I proof the first jar down and BOOM fucking sulphur smell. Total loss. After looking through some beer and wine forums I’ve determined some kind of sulphide problem but I’m not sure which one. What I really care about though is finding out where I went wrong.

Maybe the producer of the juice changed something.
Maybe the yeast produced more sulphides or I should’ve added nutrient.
Maybe I didn’t aerate enough.
I know I know…ditch the SS still for copper. I’m freaking working on it ok!

Any ideas guys? I’d like to identify my problem so I can avoid this in the future.

[Deplorable]

Ive only had Sulphur in my ferment once, on a SSS of all things. I noticed it early on day 2 of the ferment, and dropped in a big wad of copper mesh. the next day the smell was almost gone by the time the ferment was dry, the smell was completely absent. That 30 gallon wash made some fine neutral.
Sorry, Im of little help here.

[Stonecutter]

Knowing how to “fix” an issue that arises is great knowledge. Thanks Deplorable

[jonnys_spirit]

In addition to copper I also treated low wines with hydrogen peroxide to remediate some SO2 from some wine that came over very strong in the low wines. Copper or reduless for H2S and H2O2 for SO2. Odin has a calc on his site that I used to dose the H2O2 and I put a roll of copper mesh into the low wines for about a week. Worked great and the sulphur smell was very strong. Completely gone.

Cheers!
-j


https://morewinemaking.com/products/reduless.html

[still_stirrin]

Here’s a “freebie”:
—> Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) smells like “rotten eggs” or “egg farts”. You’ll know the smell when you smell it!
—> Sulfur dioxide (SO2) smells like “burned match sticks”. Similarly stinky, but with a different smell, yet quite distinguishable.

And another “stinky smell” is the CO2 that is hydrated bubbling up through your ferment. It forms carbonic acid (CH2O3) and will “tingle your nostrils” when you smell it. For those who ferment in the basement, you’ve no doubt smelled it when you walk down the stairs. It does, however, decompose easily back to CO2 and H2O, so don’t worry too much (unless SHMBO says something about your smelly hobby).
ss

[Stonecutter]

Here’s a “freebie”:
—> Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) smells like “rotten eggs” or “egg farts”. You’ll know the smell when you smell it!
—> Sulfur dioxide (SO2) smells like “burned match sticks”. Similarly stinky, but with a different smell, yet quite distinguishable.

And another “stinky smell” is the CO2 that is hydrated bubbling up through your ferment. It forms carbonic acid (CH2O3) and will “tingle your nostrils” when you smell it. For those who ferment in the basement, you’ve no doubt smelled it when you walk down the stairs. It does, however, decompose easily back to CO2 and H2O, so don’t worry too much (unless SHMBO says something about your smelly hobby).
ss

Thanks SS! Searching the web indicated SO2 was putting off the match smell but then some other wine sites were describing SO2 as rotten egg smell so it was confusing. I appreciate your helping out
SHMBO or “The Boss” has been cool about it…so far

[jonnys_spirit]

For reference:
https://istillblog.com/2018/08/23/odin-removes-sulfur/

I used this to remediate SO2 added to about 45 gallons of wine that I distilled and it worked perfectly. I don't remember my additions and I had 12% H2O2 available that I use (to prevent bacterial infection in the water) in my lettuce grow room. I can measure both total and available SO2 with a special meter and process but I just computed estimated max and min SO2 and used a medium treatment - Maybe it was 20ml/5gallon carboy of low wines....

SO2 is a natural byproduct of yeast activity as well as a preservative additive against oxidation in dried fruits and juices so it may have come from that and just not been listed on the label..

BTW in my wines I used very minimal SO2 on those batches compared to what I would normally use - I didn't think it would be an issue distilling it but it ended up being very strong in the low wines so I used this and excess copper and let it sit for a week. Worked perfect! Avoid SO2 if you can but before you chuck a batch try this.

Cheers!
-j

[contrahead]

Trivia for the inquisitive:

A long time ago when I abandoned school and went to work in the oil-field, I was told of a sobering incident involving H2S; that probably occurred in the early 1960's. It seems that the drill rig hit an underground pocket of hydrogen sulfide gas, which then came up through the borehole and proceeded to kill everyone on the well-site (probably about 8-12 people). Then a cloud of this gas drifted across a nearby highway (that was about ½ mile away), and proceeded to kill people in their automobiles as they drove through it.

I worked in that same field (area) years later and on several other well-sites where H2S was detected and was constantly monitored. Roughnecks, drillers, geologist and others that serviced these wells, were often required to shave off any facial hair - so as to permit a tight seal for a gas mask (in an emergency). We were given CPR (Cardiopulmonary resuscitation) and H2S certification training before servicing such wells. Another annoying thing about H2S is that it eats some metals (especially steel cable) like a son of a bitch.

Distillers have nothing to worry about though.

Consulting wikipedia resulted in these thresholds:
0.00047 ppm is the odor threshold, (becomes detectable)
20 ppm is the OSHA permissible exposure limit (max)
10 ppm is the REL (Recommended Exposure Limit)
800 ppm is the lethal concentration

[Stonecutter]

For reference:
https://istillblog.com/2018/08/23/odin-removes-sulfur/

I used this to remediate SO2 added to about 45 gallons of wine that I distilled and it worked perfectly. I don't remember my additions and I had 12% H2O2 available that I use (to prevent bacterial infection in the water) in my lettuce grow room. I can measure both total and available SO2 with a special meter and process but I just computed estimated max and min SO2 and used a medium treatment - Maybe it was 20ml/5gallon carboy of low wines....

SO2 is a natural byproduct of yeast activity as well as a preservative additive against oxidation in dried fruits and juices so it may have come from that and just not been listed on the label..

BTW in my wines I used very minimal SO2 on those batches compared to what I would normally use - I didn't think it would be an issue distilling it but it ended up being very strong in the low wines so I used this and excess copper and let it sit for a week. Worked perfect! Avoid SO2 if you can but before you chuck a batch try this.

Cheers!
-j

Thanks for the link JS I’m going to try and step up my wine game for Brandy next year so if or when this issue comes up this calculator would come in quite handy. Odin if you’re out there thank you!

[shadylane]

5 gallons of store bought grape juice (I have used this same brand before and the ingredients don’t list anything but asorbic acid and water as additives)
1 fresh packet of safale s-04 yeast (first time use; usually I use 1118)
No nutrients or sugar added.
OG 1068

Just guessing
Safale s-04 yeast likes lot's of nutrients, The kind found in an Ale mash.
When the yeast didn't get what it wanted, it shit brimstone in your wash.

The 1118 is a wine yeast that can put up with insufficient nutrients or nitrogen.
I'd recommend going back to the 1118 and adding some store bought yeast nutrients.

[Stonecutter]

5 gallons of store bought grape juice (I have used this same brand before and the ingredients don’t list anything but asorbic acid and water as additives)
1 fresh packet of safale s-04 yeast (first time use; usually I use 1118)
No nutrients or sugar added.
OG 1068

Just guessing
Safale s-04 yeast likes lot's of nutrients, The kind found in an Ale mash.
When the yeast didn't get what it wanted, it shit brimstone in your wash.

The 1118 is a wine yeast that can put up with insufficient nutrients or nitrogen.
I'd recommend going back to the 1118 and adding some store bought yeast nutrients.

Big time Brimstone! I agree Shady, the yeast is really the only variable here. I was definitely leaning towards the yeast being the gremlin in the ferm bucket. My 1118 was gone and I used that s-04 in a pinch. Can’t blame the yeast though. +1 on the nutrients. Just one more experience to learn from. I appreciate everybody’s input. I even got one of Contras enlightening history lessons. Always appreciated.

[DaveK]

Trivia for the inquisitive:

A long time ago when I abandoned school and went to work in the oil-field, I was told of a sobering incident involving H2S; that probably occurred in the early 1960's. It seems that the drill rig hit an underground pocket of hydrogen sulfide gas, which then came up through the borehole and proceeded to kill everyone on the well-site (probably about 8-12 people). Then a cloud of this gas drifted across a nearby highway (that was about ½ mile away), and proceeded to kill people in their automobiles as they drove through it.

I worked in that same field (area) years later and on several other well-sites where H2S was detected and was constantly monitored. Roughnecks, drillers, geologist and others that serviced these wells, were often required to shave off any facial hair - so as to permit a tight seal for a gas mask (in an emergency). We were given CPR (Cardiopulmonary resuscitation) and H2S certification training before servicing such wells. Another annoying thing about H2S is that it eats some metals (especially steel cable) like a son of a bitch.

Distillers have nothing to worry about though.

Yes, H2S is very nasty stuff, on the same order as Hydrogen Cyanide gas. At concentrations of around 1000 ppm, it can kill you, and a little higher it will put you down so fast that you won't even know what happened to you. I worked in the oil refining industry for several years, and we had a handful of incidents where workers (usually pipefitters) were hit by gas leak that had high H2S. They were unconscious before they even realized they had been exposed, and never later remembered what had happened to them.

And as an aside, while in grad school, we happened to find a rather large cockroach scurrying across the lab floor one day. We managed to catch the critter and put it into a large (2 liter??) flask... We happened to have a small lab cylinder of H2S, and drew about 100 cc into a large syringe, then injected that into the flask with the cockroach. That critter was DEAD in about 1/2 second!!! (And yes, we did the dangerous stuff with the H2S under a ventilation hood).