Scotch-styled Single... without malting at all

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Not so long ago I went a bit nuts and below is my case [hi]story.

The cheating idea was to get something like a smoky estery-picking Scotch using the single barley but not malted at all.
So, the target was proclaimed as “the Scotch”,,, the process itself had nothing to do with it, though.
Ain't I the hobbyist? Yes, I am!..

Recently got some positive experience using the Angel Starter Of Liquor Making
for my corn mashes and so, decided to nail it down with just one more cereal.

made in China and called just as 'koji' all over my country

And below are my guinea pigs...

pearl barley + barley grits

I cooked about 1.5 lb of pearl barley with 2 tbsp of liquid smoke.

in fact, just boiled and left for swelling

Then toasted also about 3 lbs of barley grits (not malted) in my oven for getting
kinda dark chocolate grist and added some boiling water just to cover it.

choco pie

And I decided to drop the pine wood chips (fresh, soaked in boiling water
for less than 3 minutes) into my fermenter. In fact, I poured all this soup in.

my Oregon pine mash tun, lol

The Chinese 'koji' substance has all ferments and nutrients required for low temp saccharification and following fermentation.
Just dropped all my kasha into the smallest (~2.5gal) fermenter, covered it with cold water and waited till the temp was lower than 100F.
Poured 'koji', stirred in warm water. Added some chopped pieces of the Taiga (and something else a bit later, BTW).
Stirred the kasha once again and left it alone for a week.

how do you like this sludge?

My gracious gentlemen!.. Shall I shut up with it right now or will I go ahead with my humble narration here below?..

[rubelstrudel]

Tell more. Do tell more!

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Wow, a lonely gentleman has already manifested himself amidst my single saga!..

Okay, to be honest, I added my pine soup after 48..60 hours the fermentation had begun.
And the same time added also some lactobacilli...

the cruel fate did not allow it to produce up to half a gallon of kefir

The total time of fermentation was a bit more than 9 days.
And that's my "beer":

twobeer...

Someone tell me: is it cleared well from a thick starting kasha or not?

... or not twobeer?

The sediment as below / the dog's fur is optional:

coulda press it harder but was too lazy

Can smell the cookie but cannot bite it!

and here's some fur again, as per the true Scottish farmer's bill )))

To be continued or what?..

[Yummyrum]

Love your work .... definitely want to see more

[Swedish Pride]

how are you going to replicate the malty flavour?
smoke is one thing but for me you need a big hit of malt to get the scotch profile as well

[NZChris]

**** Fetches the popcorn ***

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Love your work .... definitely want to see more

Thank you, Yummy / I hope to post some more here!

how are you going to replicate the malty flavour?

A good question that kicks me up time and again... I'd say, it wasn't possible to smell the difference at phases of beer or low wines (that's hardly surprising, of course). Let's wait and see, guys... at least, these low wines are rather reach,,, and reach not in "isoamyl somewhat" only. For instance, I got a new note determined as fruity but it's very close to the scent of my pine cut piece that was caught from my beer. And running ahead, it would become a good aperitif before/during a good lunch (and not digestif for the fireplace&cigara after it), hehe.

**** Fetches the popcorn ***

to meet my epic fail being fully armed, eh?

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

And now I must confess something. The matter is I need more experimental material so, the other day I started another [same] mash that bubbling in my fermenter now. The reason has nothing to do with a low fermentation (I gained not much, though).

Any guess why, folks?

[Swedish Pride]

...The reason has nothing to do with a low fermentation (I gained not much, though).

Any guess why, folks?

Under pitch of the Koji?
Temp may not be right?
If you have enough enzymes in there I'm sure it will keep working the starches in to fermentables as it ferments giving you more than OG and FG indicates

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Under pitch of the Koji?
Temp may not be right?
If you have enough enzymes in there I'm sure it will keep working the starches in to fermentables as it ferments giving you more than OG and FG indicates

The koji is always a "welldo boy", even if it's out of the expiry date. Thus, working with cornmeals, I cut the 'polenta' with a knife, dropped these bricks into the fermenter and added some insignificant qty. of water trying to cover it all. And I had about 350ml of dehydrated spirits from a kilo. This time I got 275ml/kg only due to plenty troubles happened at once, such as:
1. I just burnt to brown 2/3 of the future mash in my oven (less starches for converting to sugars);
2. the temp of fermentation was unstable (30C-18C-30C there and back);
3. definitely, the pine soup moved the beer's pH to the red (higher acidity);
4. and 2/3 of mash wasn't properly cooked (just poured with insignificant qty. of boiling water) / the beer should be kept fermenting for a few more days;
5. lactics ate some yummies and so on, and so forth... but I'm not a bootlegger so, it's OK to gain not too much.

Aaaand,,, the reason to make that one-more-same-mash waaaaas...
yes, this time I'm making the cuts of... my stripping run, too
So, I need just to collect more of my NumbaOnes & NumbaTwos!..
[And I decided to do so just when the temp in my pot was 93C during the stripping of the 1st beer...]

[NZChris]

**** Fetches the popcorn ***

to meet my epic fail being fully armed, eh?

Hopefully to see a success. I composted my attempt. Fortunately, I hadn't been posting it's progress on the interweb

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Hopefully to see a success. I composted my attempt. Fortunately, I hadn't been posting it's progress on the interweb

Thank y'all here for the kind wishes. I'mma post my own attempt's future planning just after the stripping run of the 2nd mash is done and all my low wines are calculated/formulated

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Well, I'm back... going nuts again and there are some new facts and details...

From my 2 mashes, it's been collected 1750ml/55% of the NumbaOne and 2660ml/25% of the NumbaTwo.

check the cloudity of da NumbaTwo

The fate of #2 (that is definitely reach in pine oils) is quite predictable: I'll run it on boka with no reflux at all, taking the heads as 2% of dehydrated spirits.

As per my #1 — there's lotta ways possible. And the laziest one is boka-vodka-style but I don't wanna lose the yummies. There are pretty much strawberry with cream and caramel inside. I gotta save them all... at the same time avoiding all those ugly iso-... pungent components.

Status: still thinking...

[Expat]

Been watching your thread. That pine juice definitely peaked my interest, never would have thought to try that. I'll be interested to hear what it's like after the bok treatment.

Keep up the good work!

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Been watching your thread. That pine juice definitely peaked my interest, never would have thought to try that. I'll be interested to hear what it's like after the bok treatment.

A lot of real oil floats on the surface of the NumbaTwo low wines so, I'll have to decant'em thru the pipe placed at the bottom of my carboy.

Now it smells like a room with a great deal of just harvested fresh black currant berries or linseed boards being coated not so long ago, smth. intermediate... sorta "strange but positive" reaction.

But I'll decant it... so, let's wait for the spirit run and see...

how are you going to replicate the malty flavour?

Looks like I know the answer. I got lotta "burnt" caramel in my NumbaOne of the 1st mash and a huge strawberries&cream odor in my 2nd mash NumbaOne. The point now is - how not to screw it up by the run that follows up...

[NZChris]

It sounds like a mini pot still would come in handy about now. I've learned a lot from mine.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

It sounds like a mini pot still would come in handy about now. I've learned a lot from mine.

Yepp... but I need to think how to be 200% careful with the fusel alcohols which are linked with the yummies together...

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Hey Everyone and that's some nu info about my pine barley again

Okay, here's my NomerDwa's spirit run report.

First, I got carefully all heads on my boka (reflux mode) and then let it out on full swing. Below is the jars' description, one by one.

1/100ml: much over 90%, almost usual boka's caramel aroma but "brighter" + taste more "saturated", too.

2/100ml: over 90% and the most of fusel alcohols are in. Say, they were not so ugly or concentrated and I would oak them separately for some later blending needs but... let them go out for a while (to be re-fun with my NomerOdin).

3/100ml: a bit over 90%. Slight fusel alco's remains but quite easy-to-rehab: I do need them in my hard distillate, folks! Taste a bit "thinner" than previous, it's not so oily but some bread-ish notes are popping up.

4/100ml: a bit less than 90%. Saturated cereals aroma (slightly sour but pleasant smell before being diluted). Kinda ersatz-coffee bitterness in taste.

5/100ml: about 85%... pleasant sour nosing with the remote hint for the beginning of the end of run, barley, sweetness. When diluted, the barley odor becomes stronger. Less bitter than the previous jar. Good aftertaste (and it's good that it has taken place).

6/100ml: approx. 78%: sour things and caramel. Slight pine hints when diluted. There is something fresh, flowery, grassy in the taste, bread in the backyard of aftertaste.

7/90ml: about 72%. Bread in aroma and some first soapy tails, but the soap is still quite floral / not pissing off. Chinese cuisine's spices and caraway brown bread when diluted. Taste: neutral to sweet, aftertaste: salty like leaking the nine-volt battery (hehe) + coffee (and not ersatz this time).

8/90ml: 60%. Still no serious crime in aroma. Wood, some tan and soap after dilution. The taste is just a same plywood, but without obvious flaws. The finish is sweet and salty.

9/90ml: approx. 45%. Plywood and soap, but everything is quite comfortable. The taste corresponds to the smell.

10/90ml: around 20%. The joinery is enhanced, the taste of wood juice, sorta bread in finish. Very big challenge...

11/30ml: close to zero. Joinery and fish. Suddenly, not bad as 1:1 with the 1st jar. But this time we are catching a bit different animal / discharged to the sink.

Well. Gathered the jars excepting ## 2 and 9 to 11. And very likely I should discard # 8, too.

Yousers' criticism, advices, claims?..

[Single Malt Yinzer]

If you're using unmalted grains you might end up closer to a peated Irish style vs a Scotch style. Irish styles traditionally have a lot of unmalted grains. But given you're not using traditional methods it's probably going to be very unique regardless. This is one of the ones I wish I could try. How strong is the flavor compared to a regular malted barley whiskey?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

If you're using unmalted grains you might end up closer to a peated Irish style vs a Scotch style. Irish styles traditionally have a lot of unmalted grains. But given you're not using traditional methods it's probably going to be very unique regardless. This is one of the ones I wish I could try. How strong is the flavor compared to a regular malted barley whiskey?

SMY, thank you for your interest to my experiment. It would be now a good shot style booze should I decide to gather jars 1, 3, 4, the most of 5 and 6+7 at halves / no problem to enjoy just in a week.

Never had the Irish newmakes at hand for comparing to mine... now it's like kvass, like caraway crakers but still white and not red/brown so, it breaks my combo a lil bit. Most of pine was decanted just before the run: I see no oils anymore but who knows, maybe some resins will clearly pop up back in a day or two.

And I jumped rather deep into the tails with it, but I have not yet re-run my NumbaOne that is supposed to be more light-estery and head-ish (I think most of all those "regular malted barley" things would be found in it). Composing it with the NumbaTwo is definitely to change the final character of my product by adding cream and caramel to kvass... will it be delish, hehe?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

aftertaste: salty like leaking the nine-volt battery

Hahaha, licking it and not leakage of, of course ))

•••••

Well, the damn cold could not stop me from doing this as I intended (my wife was a backup gas analyzer tho) so,,, my NumbaOne boka experiment — as below.

I added some stuff of the NumbaTwo distillate to my NumbaOne carboy so that I totally got 1600ml of 55%. My booze penmate advised me not to dilute it down to 35% as I normally do before operating my reflux column. It's not so good for removing the heads but it kicks the fusel alcohols deep to the bottom. In that way, I could excess selecting the esters with no picking up the iso-spirits.

Okay, the heads were as loooooong as the Monroe's lovers list, about 13-14% of the "dehydrated" 880ml total. But I catched them all thoroughly (spelled it rite, eh?) and started my jar-by-jar treatment then.

1/95ml: got in a very overstated "drops-to-stream" mode. There were some "necks" echoes in it but,,, but!!! :: after dilution the milky nosing became finer and brighter / no bite bitterness for the tongue.

2/95ml: same overstation and, hehe, some early fusel satellites (leathery, metal pipeline etc.) were trying to come thru so, I was forced to slow down the picking as 5-6 drops per second. So far so good after dilution and the taste was oily-(buttery?)-sweet.

3/95ml: about 3 drops per second / a nice caramel&grain spirit

4/95ml: same as above, less caramel, more cereals, sweet

5/95: delish (sweet), almost neutral EtOH, 2 drops per second

6/95: a bit held up (about 3 drops in 2 seconds), evrything is clean / some strawberry dreamed in the long aftertaste (come on, is it possible?)

7/105: a clear EtOH @ 1 drop per sec. / and someone tell me where the fusels are...

8/30ml of relatively pure spirit

9/20ml approx. and we are stepping into an early funky stuff, still easy-to-rehab by oaking... okay, let's stop with it.

Well, there's a lotta cream in the 1st jar and caramel in the 2nd. And the run on the whole was quite good for me to feel happy. For sure, I'll gather it with my NumbaTwo distillate. But besides oaking it, I'm gonna make some light version basing on my fractions and lemme leave it white. And let's call it the [notorious] Russian bread wine. Why not?

I kept a bready reach flavor, saved also both caramel and milky stuff. There are some pine/fruity notes on the background, too. But it seems I lost almost all my illusions based on the liquid smoke.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I think this is to be the final picture here

the way of my action

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Some necroposting here to be...

how are you going to replicate the malty flavour?
smoke is one thing but for me you need a big hit of malt to get the scotch profile as well

Well, for now the malty flavor effect is gotten by acting as follows:
1) getting about 1.3..1.4 lb per gal of dark caramel malt (for example, using some simple malt + oven)
2) dropping it for 3 weeks into the NumbaOne (which is about 45% AbV) to infuse
3) running it on full swing with no deph to get about 78-82% AbV (and we are rich in fusels still)
4) re-running that 82% with taking the most of heads away (by means of nose!) and then cutting the dephleglegmator off (malty yummies to go now)... and switching gently the dephleg on again at 80C (175F) in the pot (still we are not taking the neutral as it's 91%AbV only)
5) using the nose every single minute for leaving the fusels in the pot
6) bingo: we got the total strength of 88% and it's very malty when proofed down

To be honest, I'd mix 4 parts of the NumbaOne's finish with 1 part of the NumbaTwo's. In this ratio it's estery and has the hint of tails in the background only. It's light, probably as Penderyn NAS and should get matured in no time.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Looking retrospectively at the first post of this thread I could say: what a noobical n(.)(.)b I was just a year and a half ago. But I guess, everyone knows this feeling here, lol.

Well. That strange experiment turned out the best I ever had on barleys. And yes, it had no malted barley at all.

Had being strange (not monstrous, though) in its first months it has now “dramatically changed”. It’s not flat, it’s 3D both for nose and taste buds. All those pine-tree-resinous-smoky things brought together into a fine ensemble. So as not to torment you with descriptions for a long time, it’s not 100% comparable to, but it definitely associates with Glenfiddich 15yo Solera release. No more, no less. With 0 malt in. Already now, nothing superfluous sticks out of it. Over time, it becomes even more balanced. And I will keep my eye on it till it's 3 years old. At least.

With. Zero. Malt. Probably, I could be worthy of the liars' bench. Doesn't matter: if so then was just typing that above and below for myself and my subjective take perpetuation

So, I made it few times again with some significant changes. So to say, trying to screw it up or to define the milestones of the taste and the aroma I liked so much. For instance, my last (and lest sophisticated) attempt was:
1. 50% cooked with liquid smoke barley grits + 50% barley malt in a mash
2. classically stilled (with feints from some single malt run) with adding some deep tails (~30%AbV)
3. had no pine tree saw cuts in my ferment tank
And it turns onto the same road after 3-4 months. The "linseed oil" and "astringency" go away and 3D comes brighter little by little.

What I never changed: Angel Koji stuff + baked to brown in the oven barley grits (cooked then with liquid smoke) + aeration/aging with "after-burbon sticks". The rest is surplus.

The report is over

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Dudes, don't be extremely surprised. I'm just back to talk to myself. A bit.
One and half year since the following entry here:

For instance, my last (and lest sophisticated) attempt was:
1. 50% cooked with liquid smoke barley grits + 50% barley malt in a mash
2. classically stilled (with feints from some single malt run) with adding some deep tails (~30%AbV)
3. had no pine tree saw cuts in my ferment tank
And it turns onto the same road after 3-4 months. The "linseed oil" and "astringency" go away and 3D comes brighter little by little.

This "50+50" is now a real magic for my nose. But it's rather harsh for my tongue. When I blend it with my other malt spirits the smell decomposes back to the cloying bothersome drying oil. Should I just add some glycerine and glucose or fructose into the "pure" sample to reduce the harshness?

[NZChris]

What proof are you tasting it at?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

What proof are you tasting it at?

43..44% AbV