Rye UJSSM Fun

[rcazparts]

Just finished 4 rounds of UJSSM. I do everything in small batch, 5 gallon or less. I planned to take all but a pound of the corn out of the UJSSM, add 5 lbs of rye & one pound of oats for another 4 rounds. Dumped out all but about 2" of corn in the bottom of my 6.5 gallon bucket. Add a little water to keep what was left wet. Failing to follow my simple plan, I took 2.5 lbs of rye, added a gallon of boiling water to it. Rye sucked the gallon up quickly, added another 1/2 gallon. Temp was 155f. Added some high temp enzyme. Put this in the bucket with the corn. Repeated with the other 2.5 lbs except used 1.5 gallons on first mixing. Once it was all in the bucket, it was thick but would stir well. Temp was about 110f. Added some low temp enzyme and let it sit while I finished distilling the UJSSM. About 30 minutes later noticed the bucket was foaming and the yeast was getting after it. Quick test shows SG of 1.022. Really not expecting much, but cool.

Took 1 gallon of backset and dissolved 6 lbs of sugar in it. Mixed this into the bucket. The bucket was very full at this point, but thought nothing of it. Put lid on it and vent. About 4 hrs later, the vent was clogged up with foam and wash/mash and gases venting around seal. Cleaned it, dipped a gallon out and put in a 2 gallon bucket. Cleaned it up and set it aside. Next morning, vent was clogged up again. Took another 1/2 gallon into small bucket. Very fragrant at this point. After work, vent on small bucket was clogged. Cleaned it, etc etc. This morning all looked good.

First observations: Foam, lots of foam. I am sure that is from the rye and boiling water. Seems to have calmed down. This is very fragrant, much more than UJSSM. Hoping that transfers to the distillate.

[still_stirrin]

Rye is a FANTASTIC nutrient for the yeast.

I was visiting with DAD300 this past weekend and he explained he uses it as a nutrient for his grain ferments at the distillery (Falling Rock). He told me of a time he had added a bucket of rye (raw, not malted) to the fermenter with his other grains and the next morning the Krausen was overflowing the fermenter and onto the floor all the way to the drain.

I have not used raw rye as a nutrient, but I believe it will “jump start” your ferment in a BiG way. And it sounds like you’ve experienced this first hand as well.

So, other brewers should take note of this tip —> rye makes a great nutrient for the yeast.
ss

[bcook608]

Rye is a FANTASTIC nutrient for the yeast.

I was visiting with DAD300 this past weekend and he explained he uses it as a nutrient for his grain ferments at the distillery (Falling Rock). He told me of a time he had added a bucket of rye (raw, not malted) to the fermenter with his other grains and the next morning the Krausen was overflowing the fermenter and onto the floor all the way to the drain.

I have not used raw rye as a nutrient, but I believe it will “jump start” your ferment in a BiG way. And it sounds like you’ve experienced this first hand as well.

So, other brewers should take note of this tip —> rye makes a great nutrient for the yeast.
ss

Is there a huge drawback to using malted rye? I have some left over that I don't plan to use any time soon so I figured I'd throw it in with my next batch of UJ if it pumps up the aromatic and flavor profiles.

[rcazparts]

Last night the foam had settled. Yeast was still active. Nice head of 'something' floating on top of liquid. I combined the small bucket back into the 6.5g bucket. Sealed it back up and everything progressing nicely. Fragrance has a strong resemblance to beer. The normal UJSSM is fragrant, but not like this wash. Is it a wash since the grain is in it?

[rubberduck71]

Rye is a FANTASTIC nutrient for the yeast.

A-ha! Well that would explain my similar experience...

I bought a 50 lb bag of rye/pumpernickel meal from my local Restaurant Store (i.e. unmalted) as an experiment. Followed my normal Angel Yeast Yellow Label protocols like I've done 10+ times before. Within a couple hours it was pushing the lids off my fermenters (3x6 gal buckets - 10 lbs of grain + 5 gal H20). I had to take a ~third of each & add to a 4th bucket. No other grain bills had done this before!

It's been sitting on oak a few months and has a very different rye taste than my other rye-ish recipes (CROW bourbon but with the Rye ratio above 50%).

Duck

[Saltbush Bill]

Is it a wash since the grain is in it?

Most here would class it as a "Sugar Head" imo.

[rcazparts]

Filtered off what liquid I could Saturday. Very thick and slimy. Put the heat to it and promptly burned it to the bottom of the boiler. Stupid.

After cleaning up that mess, I proceeded to the UJSSM steps. Without backset to add, I boiled some water, added the sugar, stirred until melted. Added cold water to the bucket containing the remaining rye until it was at the 3.5 gallon mark (small batches), then added the hot sugar water. Stirred it all up and temp was 95 degrees. That should work.

Next morning, nothing...A little activity, but nothing like should be happening. So I added a table spoon of DADY. 12 hours later checked on it, nothing. Since I did not use backset, maybe the PH is out of wack. Squeezed three limons in. Stirred. A little activity this morning, but not much.

Any ideas? I have not measured SG or PH. PH strips got wet, so will need to get some more. I was expecting it to work as the UJSSM always works.

[6 Row Joe]

I have added a pound of flaked rye to a 3 gallon batch as a adjunct and got a nice rye flavor.

[Saltbush Bill]

Next morning, nothing...A little activity, but nothing like should be happening.

What are you basing the activity level on ? bubbles in an airlock.....or watching and listening to whats happening on the surface of the wash ?

[rcazparts]

What are you basing the activity level on ? bubbles in an airlock.....or watching and listening to whats happening on the surface of the wash ?
[/quote]

Air lock for starters, but I pulled the lid and inspected the surface. It is fermenting, but very slowly. I guess that is good...

[Saltbush Bill]

Air lock is the worst indicator.....lids n seals leak.....always lift the lid n look..

[jonnys_spirit]

And a brewer’s hydrometer is helpful to confirm that the SG dropping.

[rcazparts]

And a brewer’s hydrometer is helpful to confirm that the SG dropping.

I need to do that. I have not checked it with the hydrometer.

[WhiskeyRebellion]

I found my all grain rye whiskey fermented slower than UJSSM. maybe rye just takes longer to fully convert

[Ben]

I don't think the foam is a good indicator of ferment speed. You went from a straight sugarhead, to a hybrid mash/sugarhead. Rye is incredibly foamy, lots of proteins in your soup that weren't there with UJSSM.

It's normal to have variation from ferment to ferment, especially without temp control, and pitching rate control. If your gravity is still dropping don't worry about the number. If it is stopped, and your gravity is still high check the calibration of your water top.

[rcazparts]

I found my all grain rye whiskey fermented slower than UJSSM. maybe rye just takes longer to fully convert

That is what I am seeing. It is going slow, but still fermenting. There is plenty of sugar, wonder why the rye slows it down. Interesting.

[rcazparts]

I don't think the foam is a good indicator of ferment speed. You went from a straight sugarhead, to a hybrid mash/sugarhead. Rye is incredibly foamy, lots of proteins in your soup that weren't there with UJSSM.

It's normal to have variation from ferment to ferment, especially without temp control, and pitching rate control. If your gravity is still dropping don't worry about the number. If it is stopped, and your gravity is still high check the calibration of your water top.

The foam was new to me. I had read about it with rye, but was surprised by how much was involved. I will leave more head room the next time.
The second round is still fermenting from Saturday morning.

[6 Row Joe]

I don't think the foam is a good indicator of ferment speed. You went from a straight sugarhead, to a hybrid mash/sugarhead. Rye is incredibly foamy, lots of proteins in your soup that weren't there with UJSSM.

It's normal to have variation from ferment to ferment, especially without temp control, and pitching rate control. If your gravity is still dropping don't worry about the number. If it is stopped, and your gravity is still high check the calibration of your water top.

The foam was new to me. I had read about it with rye, but was surprised by how much was involved. I will leave more head room the next time.
The second round is still fermenting from Saturday morning.

I put some flaked rye in a nylon bag as a adjunct. You get the flavor without the foam and sticky you get from mashing rye.

[Ben]

All the flavor? Maybe... you don't get any of the sugars out of it. I have been working on a barrel fill of a 90% rye, you learn its quirks and then it's really no problem. Don't fear the foam! Just give yourself extra head space in the fermenter and the still and you are golden. It's delicious.

[6 Row Joe]

All the flavor? Maybe... you don't get any of the sugars out of it. I have been working on a barrel fill of a 90% rye, you learn its quirks and then it's really no problem. Don't fear the foam! Just give yourself extra head space in the fermenter and the still and you are golden. It's delicious.

All the flavor? No but some spice. It's a nice addition to a simple UJSSM recipe. Just like the corn that is in the mix, it's just there for flavor.

[rcazparts]

Distilled the 2nd round. Took a gallon of the hot backset and dissolved 6.5lbs of sugar. Add water to the rye/corn in the the bucket. Mixed the hot gallon back with the 4 gallons of SSM. After 24 hrs, it was just barely fermenting. Added some yeast nutrient. Next morning it was going to town. It seems odd that the UJSSM would take off almost immediately after adding the sugar backset, but this will just barely do anything. I am following the same steps I have used with UJSSM. Not sure of the difference. Hopefully, the end product will be different too...in a good way.