Peach ferment question

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

I’m making my first attempt at a peach brandy by fermenting 200 pounds of peaches with no added sugar. It’s been fermenting for 5 days and it’s fermented dry and the final gravity has not changed in two days. However, I’m still getting a cap forming on it. I’m assuming this cap is being formed by CO2 still escaping them mash. I’ve never fermented fruit, only grains, and the cap on my all grain mashes always falls. Will this cap on the peach ferment fall or will the continue to float on the surface? Should I scoop them off the top and squeeze the alcohol out of them or just wait a while longer for the cap to fall and settle on the bottom?

[Salt Must Flow]

Holy cow, 200 lbs of peaches. Good for you for going big or go home

I've never done a straight fruit fermentation, but I would think that your idea to strain and squeeze out the fluid is perfectly logical unless you intend to distill on the pulp with the appropriate boiler. Point being, if fermentation is done then you're ready to distill. Do you intend to let it sit and clear? If so, I would imagine you could scoop the cap and squeeze squeeze out any fluid.

Please keep us updated on this run. This is very interesting.

[NZChris]

My caps always fall when they are done. What is your FG?

Even if it falls, you will probably want to press the wine out of them for distilling, unless you can put the pulp in a thumper.

[EricTheRed]

Let the cap fall in its own time.
Will puke badly if you don't.
Ask me how i know this.

[Saltbush Bill]

It’s been fermenting for 5 days and it’s fermented dry and the final gravity has not changed in two days.

Does that mean its now been going for 7 days ........or 3 days fermenting and two days doing nothing ?
Refractometer or Hydrometer to check gravity?
Which ever way I would think the cap should fall when its done.

[Demy]

The cap should fall off but it may happen that the carbon dioxide sustains it, this happens with fruit reduced to a puree (light), the best thing is to check the FG, generally for fruit it is close to 1,000. You could mix to degas (you should also do this when you measure the fg). For the execution it depends on the equipment, if you can distill on the solids it is better otherwise it filters ... it is not really necessary that it gives brilliance, just remove the solids.

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

Thanks guys. The ferment is done based on hydrometer readings, it’s .997. The cap just won’t fall. I’ve stirred the cap in both times I took samples to check with the hydrometer and each time the cap reformed. I just don’t want to wait around on a cap that’s never going to fall and risk the fruit rotting and messing up the run. Demy, that was my main concern, is that the purée was so light that it’s never gonna fall. I can’t distill with the solids in it, so I think I’m going to separate the purée from the alcohol today and let it clear overnight and run it tomorrow.

[Demy]

Thanks guys. The ferment is done based on hydrometer readings, it’s .997. The cap just won’t fall. I’ve stirred the cap in both times I took samples to check with the hydrometer and each time the cap reformed. I just don’t want to wait around on a cap that’s never going to fall and risk the fruit rotting and messing up the run. Demy, that was my main concern, is that the purée was so light that it’s never gonna fall. I can’t distill with the solids in it, so I think I’m going to separate the purée from the alcohol today and let it clear overnight and run it tomorrow.

Perfect, the FG arrived as expected. It will be fine, for fruit better distil as soon as possible so your plan is ok!

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

I separated the pulp from the wash and ended up with 16 gallons of just over 5% wash. I have a 20 gallon boiler and a 6 gallon thumper, so I can run the entire batch all at once. My plan is to charge the thumper with 2.5 to 3 gallons of pulp/wash, and put the cleared wash in the boiler.

Now, I know the more time you run a wash, the less and less flavor you get in the final product. What are your thoughts on running the whole batch low and slow, making cuts and calling it good? With all grain batches, I strip hard and fast and then combine all my runs to make a slow spirit run. They seem to have plenty of flavor, but I have no experience with fruit washes. I’m torn between the two approaches.

[tombombadil]

I double pot stilled about 150#s of peaches last year and it came out like essence of fresh peach.

I steam stripped it for low wines and then did a spirit run.

Have not tried the "pulp in the thumper" approach, I'm not sure if the results would be similar.

Maybe collect in separate jars and decide on the second run after?

[Twisted Brick]

Since you already separated the pulp from the wash I vote you do a separate strip and spirit run like you do with your all-grain. I have done two successive seasons of a neighbor friend's plums this way and the flavor off the still is really good. It takes a year on sticks but the end result is worth the two distillations and the aging wait.

I recently picked up a peach tree primarily for making brandy so will be looking forward to your results whichever way you go.

[NZChris]

Double distilling only loses flavor if you throw it away with the backset or in the feints, or add water to the spirit run.

Peach has a lot of flavors in the early and late distillate, so don't take a large foreshot for the strip. Low wines should be well below 30%.

Don't try to cut on the fly.
Use jars, then choose a blend from the jars rather than deciding your cut based on tasting individual jars.

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

Well, then, I think I’ll double distill it. To get my low wines down well below 30%, I think I will have to collect down to at least 10% alcohol, maybe lower. I usually shut down at 20% on my bourbon runs and the low wines end up at 40%.

And trust me, Chris, I’m nowhere near skilled enough to make cuts on the fly. I can generally get in the correct area of heads/hearts and hearts/tails, but not when flavors are involved. It sounds to me like brandy may be very similar to bourbon, where the flavor resides outside the hearts and must be blended back in and then aged to smooth everything out. Twisted, do age on white oak sticks? Toasted or toasted and charred?

[NZChris]

Well, then, I think I’ll double distill it. To get my low wines down well below 30%, I think I will have to collect down to at least 10% alcohol, maybe lower.

To avoid the temptation to shut down the strips too early, don't watch the ABV at the spout, or temperatures, measure the ABV in the receiver. I usually take my fruit runs down to 27% and lower.

[Twisted Brick]

BC,

I started out aging on white oak sticks that I toasted and charred myself. My spirits improved on these sticks including the plumb brandy. Since then, my first barrel (5gal single-fill bourbon barrel from a distillery) has done fantastic things to my bourbon over 16mo's so that's the direction I'm headed going forward. Can't recommend aging in barrels enough.

I strip down until I see 10% (or less) off the spout. Gives me low wines 30%ABV or under. Doing this has paid flavor dividends in spades.

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

Thanks, twisted. I aged my first bourbon on sticks. It turned out good. I have 5 gallons aging in a new white oak barrel now. I only expect about two gallons of drink out of this brandy run. If I age it, I’ll probably just do sticks.

[Demy]

I am in line with others. The double distillation has another important function, it increases the abv and this allows you to make good cuts in the second distillation .. in my experience with low abvs it is not possible to make cuts .. the only times are with wine with an abv of start greater than 10. Also go deep into the queues, it reaches at least 10abv, the smell will not seem good but then in the second run you will collect the flavors dragged by the alcohol. If you use a pot-still go slow in the second. I have never used a thumper so I don't know about that, but I can say to be careful with clogging, I would like fresh wash rather than pulp.

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

I did my stripping run today and ended up with 3 gallon plus a quart of low wines at 25% ABV. I discarded just a little over 150 ml of foreshots.

Man, the foreshots had an awesome peach smell. It continued over into the heads. By the time I got to the hearts, the peach smell was virtually gone and the taste was pretty bland, but sweet. The tails had a wet cardboard smell backed up by a more subtle peach smell. They tasted way better than they smelled.

I was surprised to see how cloudy the entire run was. I did run it hard and fast, but no more so than all my bourbon runs. Usually the bourbon runs don’t turn cloudy until the tails. Maybe a fruit wash is inherently more oily? I’m sure on my slow spirit run I’ll get it cleared up, so not really worried about it, just an observation.

[NZChris]

Why would you discard awesome peach smell?

I hope you didn't actually discard it and can put it back in for the spirit run.

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

It’s still in a separate jar that can be added back in. But everything I’ve read said to discard the foreshots on every run to get rid of the methanol. If it’s safe to add it back in, I definitely can do that. But I segregated way less foreshots on this run than I would on a similar all grain run, just because of that smell.

[NZChris]

viewtopic.php?t=40606

[Saltbush Bill]

I’ve read said to discard the foreshots on every run to get rid of the methanol.

You cant get rid of methanol that easily......its spread right through the run.
I think what Chris is saying is that those fores and all that peach smell would be better off included in the low wines for the spirit run.
You can still make a fores cut then.

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

Yeah I just got thru reading that thread Chris linked. It was a good read. I guess I kind of misspoke as well. The portion I kept separate as fores did have a great peach smell, but behind that peach smell was also the smell of acetone. Granted, it wasn’t near as strong as in my grain distillations. And as soon as that smell disappeared, after about 1/3 of a pint, the peach smell remained and I kept everything after that. I’ll add that jar back to the low wines and run it again in the spirit run.

For clarification on the spirit run, how much, if any, of the fores should be discarded? I typically do 150 ml/25l of wash in grain runs. But as I’m discovering, fruit washes are a totally different animal.

[NZChris]

That nail varnish smell is a part of peach flavor, but you don't want too much of it. If you are worried about getting too much of it, use smaller cut volumes, especially at the start.

Some of the outside jars will taste nasty on their own, but will improve the flavor of the whole. That's why I recommend tasting sample blends, not individual jars. I start with a sample of most the flavorless middle jars, then keep working outwards, alternating, adding from one jar at a time, until I identify the jars that are one too far.

[NZChris]

After my first attempt at peach. I put the heads and tails in a single jar. I was disappointed with how much flavor I had in the heart cut, so I tasted the feints and found that they had more peach than my hearts, so I put them on oak too. Those feints eventually got used to make a very nice Bayleys style Peaches & Cream Liqueur.

[Demy]

I believe you have done your procedure absolutely well. In the second distillation, proceed more slowly and discard the "first heads" just like you did ie get rid of the smell of acetone and then proceed to keep the "late heads", you cannot indicate a precise quantity because each ferment is different. Proceed, then at the first hint of queues (the alcohol begins to be bitter) I advise you not to go further.

[NZChris]

You might be getting confused about the definition of 'heads', Demy. You are not the only distiller that has missed the proper meaning of the word.

Heads are what you discard. When you decide to include a jar in the 'hearts' it becomes hearts. Only the jars left over after you have chosen your heart cut can be described as early, or late, heads and tails.

[Saltbush Bill]

When you decide to include a jar in the 'hearts' it becomes hearts. Only the jars left over after you have chosen your heart cut can be described as early, or late, heads and tails.

I think that, that is rubbish Chris and only serves to confuse hell out of people, especially newbs to the hobby.