Pectin, pectinase, and Methanol, what is the real story?

[Norwest]

Hi,
I am planning to make some apple and pear brandy and am not so clear on the whole pectin, pectinase and methanol question. What I have read implies that pectinase though solving viscocity and foaming issues somehow can promote methanol production. What is the science here? Does pectinase produce short chain pectin/polysaccharide molecules that are more available to the methanol producing bacteria? Is avoiding the use of pectinase the best option for avoiding unwanted methanol?

[LWTCS]

Hang tight Norwest,,,Dunderhead be along shortly.

[Norwest]

Thank ye. I am a very patient chap. Tomas

[Dnderhead]

yes pectic enzymes will produce more menthol.this is from braking down pectin,much like braking down cellulose. not from some secondary ferment. apples are bad for this any way so take off more fore shots/heads.

[Norwest]

Great, thanks for the information. Is it possible to heat or flash pasturize high pectin fruit containg mash to kill unwanted wild yeast and bacteria before pitching the desired yeast or will this turn into jelly? I am a long time brewer and former microbiologist so I am a bit obsessed about wort/mash sterility. Base on my limited reading it seems that most people don't worry too mutch about wild yeast.

Thanks,

Tomas

[junkyard dawg]

You can heat fruit, but its not really needed. Some use potassium metabisulphate to kill yeasts in fruit. again, not really needed for something destined for the still.

[Dnderhead]

yes if you heat fruit it can turn to jelly (depending on fruit) but the pectic enzymes will brake it down.

[Michaeln416]

Hi,I am planning to make some apple and pear brandy and am not so clear on the whole pectin, pectinase and methanol question.

How did your pear brandy turn out? Any tips for someone about to try it for the first time? I've got two trees full of ripe pears and I'm anxious to get them fermenting before the bees, racoons, squirrels and birds eat them all.

Thanks;
Mike

[Norwest]

Hi Mike,

Have not made Pear or Apple or Brandy yet as these fruit are just getting ready in Washington State. Just finished my cherry brandy . Want to do pear soon but am not sure weagrind and press in my cider mill or to grind and ferment with skins and debris. Thinking that grinding and fermenting everthing might result in better more complex flavors.

Norwest

[beelah]

I have a batch crabapples working away since Monday and I tried something new this year. I put the whole crab apples, stems and all inthe blender with some water and chopped them up...rather like thick apple sauce. Then I made a wash of water and cane sugar to around 8% potential alcohol in 20 lts of water...end abv was around 12% potential alcohol or sg 1.085 with the apple juice and mash...they were pretty tart apples.

I first tried coopers ale yeast, but nothing was happening in 24 hours so I added 1/4 cup of Flieshmans and it took off in about 2 hours...good vigorous ferment.

There is a thick cap of apple pulp on top of the wash that for the first 3 days I would break up and mix back in. I checked the sg an it was down to 1.035 yesterday .

I plan to just scoop the cap off when the sg is down to 1.000 and then put it into a secondary to settle until clear. What I find is that the wash has much more colour and flavour than in the past where I just chopped the apples up and added water and sugar. So you may find the same with your approach.

I will run this when clear and doa second ferment with more crabs...when it's is done and ready to run ,I will add the stripped run from the first ferment and do a slow spirit run for added flavour .

I'll let you knows how it turnes out.

[Garouda]

yes pectic enzymes will produce more menthol.this is from braking down pectin,much like braking down cellulose. not from some secondary ferment. apples are bad for this any way so take off more fore shots/heads.

Not true in fact ! Depending on the pectinase used and the variety of fruit, it may increase or decrease the amount of methanol, hence don't use it it's not relevant here !
My source: Pieper, Bruchmann and Kolb, Technologie der Obstbrennerei, ISBN 3-8001-5808-6, table 31 p.245

[adamf]

yes pectic enzymes will produce more menthol.this is from braking down pectin,much like braking down cellulose. not from some secondary ferment. apples are bad for this any way so take off more fore shots/heads.

Not true in fact ! Depending on the pectinase used and the variety of fruit, it may increase or decrease the amount of methanol, hence don't use it it's not relevant here !
My source: Pieper, Bruchmann and Kolb, Technologie der Obstbrennerei, ISBN 3-8001-5808-6, table 31 p.245

Yes, it's confusing, for sure. The most common natural enzyme that breaks down Pectin is Pectin Methylesterase; this makes methanol. Instead, if one uses Pectic enzyme, one will be using Pectolyase which breaks down Pectin into parts that do not contain methanol. What's confusing is that often the Pectic enzyme is referred to as "Pectinase" enzymes one of which is the methanol producing one (Pectin Methylesterase). You want Pectic enzyme that contain the enzymes pectolyase, pectozyme, or polygalacturonase. Luckily, that's what most "Pectic Enzyme" sold for fermentation contains (I called my manufacturer and checked). Here's the wikipedia article on Pectinase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectinase

By using Pectic enzyme and lowering your must pH, you can reduce the amount of methanol produced by the breakdown of Pectin, significantly.
See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8125215/

Adam

[Demy]

yes pectic enzymes will produce more menthol.this is from braking down pectin,much like braking down cellulose. not from some secondary ferment. apples are bad for this any way so take off more fore shots/heads.

Not true in fact ! Depending on the pectinase used and the variety of fruit, it may increase or decrease the amount of methanol, hence don't use it it's not relevant here !
My source: Pieper, Bruchmann and Kolb, Technologie der Obstbrennerei, ISBN 3-8001-5808-6, table 31 p.245

Yes, it's confusing, for sure. The most common natural enzyme that breaks down Pectin is Pectin Methylesterase; this makes methanol. Instead, if one uses Pectic enzyme, one will be using Pectolyase which breaks down Pectin into parts that do not contain methanol. What's confusing is that often the Pectic enzyme is referred to as "Pectinase" enzymes one of which is the methanol producing one (Pectin Methylesterase). You want Pectic enzyme that contain the enzymes pectolyase, pectozyme, or polygalacturonase. Luckily, that's what most "Pectic Enzyme" sold for fermentation contains (I called my manufacturer and checked). Here's the wikipedia article on Pectinase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectinase

By using Pectic enzyme and lowering your must pH, you can reduce the amount of methanol produced by the breakdown of Pectin, significantly.
See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8125215/

Adam

This is interesting, is this distinction scientifically confirmed? I've never used enzymes in my fruit because I've always read about the danger of increased methanol (and also why it's cheaper without it)