Say hello to Arian Mawr

[MooseMan]

Hi all.

So I finally did my first CCVM reflux run, and what a long day that was!

I took notes, photos and did lots of messing about to get a steer on what she can do at different states, and as you guys seem to like reading about people's experiences I will share, warts and all.

If it gives the experienced heads here a chuckle and a wry smile, well then that's great by me. And if even one person gets to learn something from it, even better.

Firstly, as it's her first "Real" run I had to name her, so she will be know from this point on as Arian Mawr. (There's at least one person on this forum who will immediately know what that name means)

Total 30lts of wine added to the keg, one a 2 year old plum that just won't clear and one a cherry and rhubarb that is too bitter from the wild cherries. Approx 15% abv, so there should be c. 4l of alcohol.

I had a late start as we had a few too many blackberry wines the night before, and in my rush to get going I forgot to note the time I started heating. I'd say approx 40 mins as I used both elements on max until the reducer on top of the keg was hot.

So, one element turned off at 10:40am, one left on full (2400w) and at 10:57 the top of the column was heating up.
10:58 I had drips!
So water pump on, element reduced to half power and full reflux.

After 10 mins I still had the occasional drip, and the only thing I changed after the sac run was to remove the copper mesh from the bottom of the RC and put it into the top to stop a rattle.
It clearly makes a difference!

So by 11:16 I had powered down, put a rolled up sausage of mesh into the base of the RC and was up and running again.

At 11:20 I was in full reflux, 1200w heat input, no drips and the cold zone was exactly below the exit of the tee on top of the column.

11:30 raised the RC 2 coils to start drawing foreshots.

Small leak at PC shell join to elbow, loosened, rotated a bit to reseat and closed up.

11:32 raised RC to 3 coils as smell started to clean up, at less than 1 drip/sec.

Changed to heads bottles and raised RC to 4 coils at 11:40. (I don't have graduated glass yet so I don't know how much fores)

11:45 drips seemed to slow a little and at 12:15 the smell and taste seemed to clean up a little on the 3rd 250ml bottle of heads. Alcometer reading 90% at 9c fluid temp.

12:25 lowered power to approx 1000w to slow stream, still tasting of heads. Approx 3 drips/sec.

12:35 noticed water starting to warm up in the barrel (Started at approx 10c) so added water from outdoor hose to cool down again.

12:38 power back up to half and RC raised to 6 coils to get a broken stream for last heads bottle, total 4 bottles so approx 1l.

12:45 RC raised to 8 coils (Possibly too high) for hearts bottle 1.

12:50 raised to 9 coils.

13:10 raised power to approx 1800w.

From this point on I was messing with power input and RC position approx every 200ml, and taking alcometer reading to find a sweet spot.
I didn't find one!

As the product is so cold, I'm not getting a reading above 90% so it's really difficult to put a finger on where the settings are best.
By the 16th bottle of hearts I was at 1200w heat input and had the RC coil approx 4" out of the top, which is 5 coils. This giving approx 3-4 drips/sec.
I'm going to warm it all up as soon as I have time, and take proof readings from each bottle to see if there is a "Best condition" for her.

So that's that, a long bloody day and lots learned!
Back to the reality of work tomorrow, so who knows when I'll get to run again!

[Boozewaves]

haha nice I see why he's called Mawr quite easily . So did you end up using the glass pieces then or is that thick insulation on the column? . Mine is named the 2020 still after its year of being finished and also so I can make a bad pun about having 2020 vision by seeing clearly through the glass

if you are using the glass for the main pipe column it may be worth uncovering a bit of insulation at the top or having a flap to uncover and look at occasionally so you can keep an eye on the amount of reflux that is dripping back down . being able to see the reflux drips amount helped me a lot in the beginning and I would not want to go back to running without it.

taking notes like you did will help you in future , I have some basic timeline graphs from running my potstill and they have helped me figure out what the best boiler settings are . I usually play it by ear when using my CCVM and go by feeling how hot certain pipes are or the keg top and watching the sightglass to determine whether I need more water flow or heat . it tends to be an all day thing for me as well . but in the beginning I definitely wrote out lots of notes

I think with a stronger boiler charge you might go from 90ABV to 95 .I usually dilute my low wines to 20ABV with water and it helps keep it smooth . it means I throw 4 demijohns of stripped low wines in and 3 demijohns of water . it depends on how much time I have got and what I want to make. if I wanted to run once and store it or infuse it i'd do a 40ABV run but if it was for drinking quite soon with mixer then 2 runs would be better . I have also found I can do a "6 hours quick run" that makes 6 litres of o.k booze once diluted to 40ABV by putting 2 demi's of low wines and the rest topped up with the finished wash

During a CCVM run if I have done everything right everything that drips out will be 95ABV .I keep a bit of tails for window cleaning / fire starter but I don't bother collecting until the tails ABV begin to drop)

its probably due to the time of year but i'm surprised nobody else responded to a picture post of a new build

[MooseMan]

haha nice I see why he's called Mawr quite easily . So did you end up using the glass pieces then or is that thick insulation on the column? . Mine is named the 2020 still after its year of being finished and also so I can make a bad pun about having 2020 vision by seeing clearly through the glass
No glass mate, that's just really thick commercial pipe insulation, it's the stuff they put on chiller lines outdoors etc brilliant stuff. I can't feel any heat whatsoever on the outside.
2020 vision haha I like it!

if you are using the glass for the main pipe column it may be worth uncovering a bit of insulation at the top or having a flap to uncover and look at occasionally so you can keep an eye on the amount of reflux that is dripping back down . being able to see the reflux drips amount helped me a lot in the beginning and I would not want to go back to running without it.
I've got myself a sight glass, it actually arrived just yesterday. It's a really neat little short glass that only adds 4" to the column height and hardly any bulk, can't wait to get it on there and run it. Have a look at my build thread and you'll see it.

taking notes like you did will help you in future , I have some basic timeline graphs from running my potstill and they have helped me figure out what the best boiler settings are . I usually play it by ear when using my CCVM and go by feeling how hot certain pipes are or the keg top and watching the sightglass to determine whether I need more water flow or heat . it tends to be an all day thing for me as well . but in the beginning I definitely wrote out lots of notes

I think with a stronger boiler charge you might go from 90ABV to 95 .I usually dilute my low wines to 20ABV with water and it helps keep it smooth . it means I throw 4 demijohns of stripped low wines in and 3 demijohns of water . it depends on how much time I have got and what I want to make. if I wanted to run once and store it or infuse it i'd do a 40ABV run but if it was for drinking quite soon with mixer then 2 runs would be better . I have also found I can do a "6 hours quick run" that makes 6 litres of o.k booze once diluted to 40ABV by putting 2 demi's of low wines and the rest topped up with the finished wash
Now I've got a reflux run under my belt I'm going to start doing as you suggest and strip a few washes to get a higher ABV boiler charge before my reflux runs. My end goal is to have a decent stock of really good clean neutral, then I plan to start doing small gin experiments with Odin's as a base.
I'll probably end up converting a SS cook pot into a gallon still for this.

During a CCVM run if I have done everything right everything that drips out will be 95ABV .I keep a bit of tails for window cleaning / fire starter but I don't bother collecting until the tails ABV begin to drop)

its probably due to the time of year but i'm surprised nobody else responded to a picture post of a new build

Yes I was quite surprised, I was hoping for some feedback, and expecting a few comments/pointers on what I can improve etc.

[greggn]

I was hoping for some feedback, and expecting a few comments/pointers on what I can improve etc.

Lose the plastic test jar and get a glass one.

[sadie33]

"So by 11:16 I had powered down, put a rolled up sausage of mesh into the base of the RC and was up and running again."

Oh my goodness, I thought you were really using sausage. When boiling sap for maple syrup, people will cook their hot dogs in the boiling sap. I was thinking like a beer sausage but more like a booze sausage.

wow, that sounds like a long day! Congrats on the first run of Arian Mawr!

[MooseMan]

I was hoping for some feedback, and expecting a few comments/pointers on what I can improve etc.

Lose the plastic test jar and get a glass one.

Yes I really should get another glass one Gregg. I've already broken 3 during many years of home brewing beer so plastic is just really convenient.

[MooseMan]

"So by 11:16 I had powered down, put a rolled up sausage of mesh into the base of the RC and was up and running again."

Oh my goodness, I thought you were really using sausage. When boiling sap for maple syrup, people will cook their hot dogs in the boiling sap. I was thinking like a beer sausage but more like a booze sausage.

wow, that sounds like a long day! Congrats on the first run of Arian Mawr!

Hahaha I'm always up for a whacky experiment with new ingredients Sadie, but that would be a bit far even for me!

That does sound good though, hotdogs cooked in maple sap steam!

Thanks, I'm very happy with her!

[StillerBoy]

Yes I was quite surprised, I was hoping for some feedback, and expecting a few comments/pointers on what I can improve etc.

Maybe if the title of the thread had been named properly is a start..

There are many things that created the long day.. one is not having researched how to run a CCVM or for that matter of fact, any other reflux column still.. you may have research how to build but not of running one.. two.. a 30L wash at 15% should not have taken more that 3 hrs..

But I'll question instill so you can find the answers..

How did you know or have any idea what was happen inside the column ? I look over your picture but couldn't find or see a temp probe at the top of the packing..

Mars

[greggn]

Lose the plastic test jar and get a glass one.

Yes I really should get another glass one Gregg. I've already broken 3 during many years of home brewing beer so plastic is just really convenient.

It's not about convenience, it's all about safety. Plastic is fine for measuring OG/FG of your ferment but it's not at all acceptable for high proof distillate. High proof alcohol can literally fracture those plastic cylinders.

Sure, those sold at the HBS are paper-thin pieces of crap that can break with with a hard sneeze. I broke three in my first year. Then I bought a borosilicate glass one that's survived multiple tips on a granite countertop. You may be surprised to learn they cost about the same as the junk sold by the HBS. For example ...

[MooseMan]

Lose the plastic test jar and get a glass one.

Yes I really should get another glass one Gregg. I've already broken 3 during many years of home brewing beer so plastic is just really convenient.

It's not about convenience, it's all about safety. Plastic is fine for measuring OG/FG of your ferment but it's not at all acceptable for high proof distillate. High proof alcohol can literally fracture those plastic cylinders.

Sure, those sold at the HBS are paper-thin pieces of crap that can break with with a hard sneeze. I broke three in my first year. Then I bought a borosilicate glass one that's survived multiple tips on a granite countertop. You may be surprised to learn they cost about the same as the junk sold by the HBS. For example ...

Thanks for the link Gregg, they sell them in pairs so I'll get 2 "Just in case"

You are totally correct and I already knew that I shouldn't be using plastic at all, but it's what I had on hand for quick testing on the day as I'd completely forgotten that the last glass one had smashed.

[MooseMan]

Yes I was quite surprised, I was hoping for some feedback, and expecting a few comments/pointers on what I can improve etc.

Maybe if the title of the thread had been named properly is a start..

There are many things that created the long day.. one is not having researched how to run a CCVM or for that matter of fact, any other reflux column still.. you may have research how to build but not of running one.. two.. a 30L wash at 15% should not have taken more that 3 hrs..

But I'll question instill so you can find the answers..

How did you know or have any idea what was happen inside the column ? I look over your picture but couldn't find or see a temp probe at the top of the packing..

Mars

Hi Mars thanks for your input.

I wasn't aware that there is a required naming convention for posts, or any kind of accepted title nomenclature?

I have done a fair bit of reading on how best to run a reflux column, however still being a complete novice I wanted to find out what mine can do in a varied set of conditions, not just follow someone else's settings and not learn anything about my own still.
Yes I could have just blindly followed any of the excellent advice from some of the leading guys on CCVM here, and I will be doing that to some extent going forward. That would have got the run done quicker, cleaner and stress free, but I want to learn for myself.

Now I've run it and know that it can do what I need without any further modifications, I'm going to start stripping wines and building up stocks to do reflux runs, until I've got it completely dialled in.

I do now have a sight glass, so that will be on the still for the next run, but I don't fully understand how a temp monitor will benefit me. If you think it will add more functionality to the still setup I'd love to learn more? From your input on this forum you are clearly extremely talented and experienced, so any advice you can offer would be most welcome?
In fact any advice you are willing to provide, in any area would be invaluable to me as a total beginner to this amazing hobby.