Glazing honey/sugar mix

[MooseMan]

I have a question that I'm hoping those who have more experience than me can answer.

I have a pretty large volume of a honey/sugar mix that was meant for glazing hams. I'm talking over 20x 5L buckets.
It's basically 70% honey and the rest is a mix of sugars with some very dark "Burnt sugar" that makes it all look like molasses and gives it a slightly bitter taste but not like molasses or treacle. It's just got a very strong taste.

I've been using it for a couple of years in my stouts as it goes well with the flavours, but I'll never use it all so I thought I may as well try making some neutral with it.

So to my question, if I was to ferment it to approx 10%, then strip it, then combine and run the strips through my CCVM, would I get a totally clean neutral do you guys think?
Or if it's not that simple, is there anything I can do to help this along?

Any and all suggestions welcome.

And I'm sure someone will mention Rum, yes I may give that a try but I'm not really a fan of the stuff.

[squigglefunk]

sounds delicious, I wouldn't make neutral from it but I really don't make neutral so there is that.

So yes, I am going to say a rumish type thing is what you should make

[Knife_man]

sounds delicious, I wouldn't make neutral from it but I really don't make neutral so there is that.

So yes, I am going to say a rumish type thing is what you should make

I second that .... I would do a pot still run first and see if you like it.if you don't throw it through the column.

Can't comment if you'll be able to strip it down to a neutral but would defiantly recomend you try it pot stilled first.

[MooseMan]

It really is delicious squiggle, we use it to cook as well it makes honey roasted anything turn out amazing.

I'm sure it would work in a rumish thing so I'll probably give it a try as you and knife_man suggest, but as I've got so much I just want to use it all up.

[Knife_man]

It really is delicious squiggle, we use it to cook as well it makes honey roasted anything turn out amazing.

I'm sure it would work in a rumish thing so I'll probably give it a try as you and knife_man suggest, but as I've got so much I just want to use it all up.

I suspect your the wrong side of the pond but I'd be happy to help "dispose" of it

[Dancing4dan]

sounds delicious, I wouldn't make neutral from it but I really don't make neutral so there is that.

So yes, I am going to say a rumish type thing is what you should make

I agree. Honey is like gold here these days and I keep looking but not finding a good price point.

[MooseMan]

It really is delicious squiggle, we use it to cook as well it makes honey roasted anything turn out amazing.

I'm sure it would work in a rumish thing so I'll probably give it a try as you and knife_man suggest, but as I've got so much I just want to use it all up.

I suspect your the wrong side of the pond but I'd be happy to help "dispose" of it

Haha yes, if you mean the UK, I'm the wrong side!

I'd be happy to share some if I could though, honestly.

By the way I didn't buy it Dan. I used to work in the food packaging industry and one of our customers wanted rid of a half pallet of it as the use by date was up, so I literally filled my car, back seats and all!
I know they have to abide by the expiry dates, but I don't, Honey does not go off!

[Steve Broady]

I’ll second the suggestion to make rum. Double distill it in a pot still, make enough to fill a barrel and let it age for a year or two, and use the feints to make neutral. In other words, get the most out of it. Why throw good flavor away, after all?

[Knife_man]

Haha yes, if you mean the UK, I'm the wrong side!

I'd be happy to share some if I could though, honestly.

By the way I didn't buy it Dan. I used to work in the food packaging industry and one of our customers wanted rid of a half pallet of it as the use by date was up, so I literally filled my car, back seats and all!
I know they have to abide by the expiry dates, but I don't, Honey does not go off!

Not the wrong side of the pond then ..... Just the wrong side of the border .

Wonder if I can convince the wife that a holiday in Wales(with a van) is a good idea this year ?

In all seriousness though you have enough to experiment with and then some. I suspect that even if you can't strip it down to a neutral your still going to end up with a delicious drop.

I'm trying to imagine the taste your describing and I can only guess it would go well as a free sugar addition to rums and whiskeys as well

[StillerBoy]

So to my question, if I was to ferment it to approx 10%, then strip it, then combine and run the strips through my CCVM, would I get a totally clean neutral do you guys think?

Keeping the wash below 10% or 1.070, stripping it, will give a result for a potential neutral .. what the flavor will be is totally based on the ingredient used..

As to spiriting it to become neutral, that will depend on the setup, how experience the operator is, and how the cuts are made.. making neutral on a one pass reflux column will carry a small amount of flavor, unless multipal runs are done or having a high reflux column setup..

Mars

[Bradster68]

I'm a rum guy,soooo make some rum.
That's a very lucky score you got there

[MooseMan]

Ok I'm definitely going to make sure I keep a couple buckets to one side to do a sort of rum once I feel confident enough. That's well in my future I think.

And straight up Knife_man, if you're ever over on the green side of this land, I'll happily drop a couple of buckets on you to play with if you promise to post back a little sample bottle of rummy goodness. Not my go to tipple, but you have to try these things!

In its raw state it's virtually black, super sweet but with a kind of toasty, burnt caramel finish. Tastes amazing when fermented in a dry stout with plenty of dark malt, and on honey roasted parsnips it's outstanding!
It was designed specifically by food scientists to be spread onto hams in huge commercial ovens, so it's been carefully put together, just not for brewing or distilling!

Mars thanks for the detail, I'll make sure when I do have a go at it, I'll keep it below 10% potential ABV. It doesn't ferment totally dry as there's some kind of unfermentable sugar in there, possibly the burnt caramel tasting stuff, so that's what I'm concerned about not being able to clean up in the reflux column.

I don't feel ready yet, so I'm really gathering info, (And courage!) to do it once I have a little more experience.
I will do one mash with it though following your advice and strip it as soon as I get chance.

I'm very aware that I got a lucky score with it, even years before I even thought about distilling!

[Steve Broady]

You could always try a small sample to see how well it ferments. A small carboy for example.

[MooseMan]

I've fermented it lots of times Steve, but never on its own.

I've done many batches of honey stout, I did a slightly psychoactive herbal mead (Which is called a Metheglin) and I've used it to colour up some lighter ales in the past too.

I'm definitely going to try fermenting it with water only after these comments though, and see how the yeast likes it.

[MooseMan]

An update.

I've just dug out a 5l bucket of the glaze and started a ferment with it.

I had a wine batch that needed racking to a new vessel, so I've used the lees left in the bottom to start fermenting the glaze with, as it will be full of live and dead yeast.

I used the whole 5Lts in a 15L bottle batch.
I forgot to take the SG but should be easy enough to calculate.

To show just how dark this stuff is:-

[StillerBoy]

I forgot to take the SG but should be easy enough to calculate.

How is it easy enough to calculate ? ? are you aware of the amount of un-fermentables in glazes ? ? one thing to use it in making beer to add flavor, a totally different thing to use it alone to make alcohol..

Forgetting to take an SG is a habit that is unproductive in the hobby..

Mars

[Salt Must Flow]

I once had approx 10 gal of UJSSM that was sitting around for a while, I wasn't going to drink it, so I ran it with my VM and I came out neutral. If you want neutral, I imagine it should turn out fine.

[elbono]

are you aware of the amount of un-fermentables in glazes ?

Wouldn't that make the sg measurement irrelevant?

I usually take sg measurements on a wash or mash but don't obsess on it. All I really pay attention to is it stops dropping at the end of fermentation.
Start vs end tells you how much alcohol to expect but I'm going to know that as soon as I distill it which isn't long. The only value to me is knowing how many jars I need, i get out enough jars for 10% and a couple extra

I'm sure he could make a small duplicate batch if he really wants to know.

[StillerBoy]

Wouldn't that make the sg measurement irrelevant?

Yes to some extent depending on ingredient is being fermented.. I do rum using fancy molasses and the SG works fine, but the SG does not work as well using feed molasses.. why.. the composition are different as it has un-fermentable in it.. so he using an ingredient that may or may not have un-fermentable..

I usually take sg measurements on a wash or mash but don't obsess on it. All I really pay attention to is it stops dropping at the end of fermentation.

The SG at the start only give an expect potential.. and taking an SG during the fermentation only provide evidence that it's fermenting which can be done in other ways.. and to know if the fermentation is done, a pen light shine across the surface will indicate if it's done or not..

Mars

[MooseMan]

I forgot to take the SG but should be easy enough to calculate.

How is it easy enough to calculate ? ? are you aware of the amount of un-fermentables in glazes ? ? one thing to use it in making beer to add flavor, a totally different thing to use it alone to make alcohol..

Forgetting to take an SG is a habit that is unproductive in the hobby..

Mars

Spiky!

What I meant Mars, is that I started with water and added what is basically sugar, so the approximate SG is going to be fairly simple to calculate. It won't be accurate, but as elbono said it's irrelevant in any case.

For example:-
The formula oechsle x 2.6 is a widely known one and used when measuring pure water and sugar.
Dissolve 100 gram sugar in a liter and the SG will be around 38 to 40. That is the 2.6 factor.
It is generally accepted that 2.6 gram sugar raises Sg by 1 point.
And oechsle is of course SG -1000.

[MooseMan]

I once had approx 10 gal of UJSSM that was sitting around for a while, I wasn't going to drink it, so I ran it with my VM and I came out neutral. If you want neutral, I imagine it should turn out fine.

That's good to know thank you.
It's going to save me a fair bit of money on sugar if it does fully clean up in my CCVM after stripping.

[StillerBoy]

What I meant Mars, is that I started with water and added what is basically sugar, so the approximate SG is going to be fairly simple to calculate. It won't be accurate, but as elbono said it's irrelevant in any case.

Assuming it's so.. but you are not working with pure sugars as it's been process with god know what and how.. it interesting that there is always a recital of defence instead of learning in your responses..

Motor on..

Mars

[MooseMan]

What I meant Mars, is that I started with water and added what is basically sugar, so the approximate SG is going to be fairly simple to calculate. It won't be accurate, but as elbono said it's irrelevant in any case.

Assuming it's so.. but you are not working with pure sugars as it's been process with god know what and how.. it interesting that there is always a recital of defence instead of learning in your responses..

Motor on..

Mars

I wasn't aware that was the case when responding to people.
But now you've mentioned it I will be.