Ingredients / botanicals information drop post

[Evil_Dark]

Hi guys!
I play around a lot with gin, especially fruity ones, and I do like to experiment. Sometimes there is some botanicals or ingredients that are not easy to extract the flavors, and I have to play around with maceration time or making a separate extract distillation of one ingredient in order to bring the flavor up as I like. I always distill with all the fruits in the boiler to collect as much alcohol that is absorbed in the ingredients. Never had scorching problems with my air still.
I don't have the possibility yet to use the vapor path in my small air still dedicated to gins, but I wonder if it could be an advantage of building a new still for gin exclusively, with a gin basket for vapor path ingredients.

So: what are your experience with some igredients that work best in vaport path or with infusion? Heres are some of my experiences:
(please share yours!)

Botanicals:
Junipers works well with infusion, but if infused for too long it provides some bitterness. Some have said that crushed junipers give a different flavor than let untouched, I will have to try this;

Orange peels: are good to be infused, however they can overpower a lot of other botanicals. I know also that they may be good in the vapor path, not sure what will be the difference in the final product between infusion and vapor path;

Coriander seeds: perfect for infusion;

Cardamom: Be careful, gives a lot of flavors per seeds! when macerated!

Star anis: Also gives a lot of flavors when infused, but when you separate a branch of the star, it gives a nice subtle complexity that bounds some flavors together.

Allspice: good when macerated, mildly overpowering. But gives a nice complexity of the spices/botanicals in the gin. Some people doen't like it, but I do enjoy it. Gives a nice earthy touch.

Fruits:
Blueberries are good infused, but they don't give a lot of flavors. If you make a concentrated solution by boiling them and reducing this syrup, it will give a stronger blueberry flavor to the gin if you add this syrup just before distillation

Strawberries are good macerated until they becomes whites, the taste will overcome nicely in the final gin

Grapefruit: Infused they almost only give a citrus taste, the typical grapefruit taste is harder to carry on the gin with maceration only from my experience;

Rhubarb: Will give a nice sour / earthy taste to the gin when macerated, I only used small quantity as I suspect that they may be overpowering;

Pineaple: Very good with maceration. Kinda discreet with flavors, and bring a sourness. But a very nice addition in fruity gins

Grapes: Surprisingly good in fruit gins when macerated, a nice fruity touch in the gin. Never tried it by itself, just as a blend with other fruits.

Watermelon: The green "skin" or bark of the watermelon gives a cucumber taste when macerated. Not bad, but you may be dissapointed if you are trying to have the fruity watermelon flavor... If you want the fruity compounds, do not macerate the bark or the white flesh, only the pinky watermelon part. It takes a lot, and it will lower the %abv because of it high water content (no surprize here...). But makes very good gin!

Cucumber: Surprisingly very good and very flavorful when macerated. I did liked a lot the cucumber gin, a nice addition to a lot of botanicals like dill, coriandre, allspice, etc...!

Peach: very subtle taste addition when macerated. Pretty similar to mango, but with less caracter.

Mango: Good when macerated, but has to be used as an addition. Too much leaves a weird mouthfeel. But when the amount is good, the taste is recongnizable and very pleasant;

have fun a please share your experiences!

[MooseMan]

Super interesting post for me and very informative, thank you.

I'm about to begin my gin journey and info like this is priceless, so any and all experience you, and the other regular gin makers have I'll devour it.

I don't have a dedicated gin still yet but I'm building one.
No basket but I can add the ability to put things in the vapour path if it's warranted.

One ingredient that I'm really looking forward to experimenting with is pine needles.

[Evil_Dark]

One ingredient that I'm really looking forward to experimenting with is pine needles.

Oh yeah that's an interesting ingredient for sure! I tend to think that this can be very flavorfull, I would start slowly with the quantity, It may be very powerful aroma.
But kinda cool to add!

[MooseMan]

One ingredient that I'm really looking forward to experimenting with is pine needles.

Oh yeah that's an interesting ingredient for sure! I tend to think that this can be very flavorfull, I would start slowly with the quantity, It may be very powerful aroma.
But kinda cool to add!

I've done a couple of infusion experiments with it, alone and with tangerine zest and it's a really nice flavour, lots of similarity to juniper as they share several prominent flavour compounds, so I really think there's some legs in building a gin (Ish) around pine needles as a base flavour.

[Pulidor]

Sí amigo,yo tambien soy de experimentar con los botánicos y aparte de disfrutar es todo un reto.
Unos botánicos dominan a otros y otros dominan a unos ,es la grandeza de esta afición que te engancha cada dia más por querer encontrar la mejor harmonia dentro de la botella.

[juana_b]

Sí amigo,yo tambien soy de experimentar con los botánicos y aparte de disfrutar es todo un reto.
Unos botánicos dominan a otros y otros dominan a unos ,es la grandeza de esta afición que te engancha cada dia más por querer encontrar la mejor harmonia dentro de la botella.

translated:
Yes friend, I am also one to experiment with botanicals and apart from enjoying it, it is quite a challenge.
Some botanists dominate others and others dominate some, it is the greatness of this hobby that hooks you more every day for wanting to find the best harmony inside the bottle.

[Pulidor]

Sí amigo,yo tambien soy de experimentar con los botánicos y aparte de disfrutar es todo un reto.
Unos botánicos dominan a otros y otros dominan a unos ,es la grandeza de esta afición que te engancha cada dia más por querer encontrar la mejor harmonia dentro de la botella.

translated:
Yes friend, I am also one to experiment with botanicals and apart from enjoying it, it is quite a challenge.
Some botanists dominate others and others dominate some, it is the greatness of this hobby that hooks you more every day for wanting to find the best harmony inside the bottle.

I'm sorry.

[OtisT]

Super interesting post for me and very informative, thank you.

I'm about to begin my gin journey and info like this is priceless, so any and all experience you, and the other regular gin makers have I'll devour it.

I don't have a dedicated gin still yet but I'm building one.
No basket but I can add the ability to put things in the vapour path if it's warranted.

One ingredient that I'm really looking forward to experimenting with is pine needles.

In addition to pine needles also try the new growth buds.

Having a mini gin still is a lot of fun. Good luck with the build.

[Saltbush Bill]

Orange peels: are good to be infused, however they can overpower a lot of other botanicals

If your worried about them overpowering other things then why not just use less?
I find when using lime peel that 0.2g in a 2L boiler charge is enough.

[Golly]

I'm in the process right now of building my distilled spirits library - 1-2L of spirit with a single herb macerated @ 40% abv, and then distilled using the airstill. I do large, overpowering amounts of a single herb in order to form a concentrate.
I have about 9 jars so far of different herbs. I will contribute a much longer post soon with tasting notes, but I recently did 40gm of Macadamia in 1.5L of neutral. Coming off the spout was like tasting liquid macadamias. Truly delicious and I cant wait to start incorporating it into some of my distillations.
Having spoken to a professional gin distiller, he recommends macadamia at x/100 - this would generate an oily flavour to the final gin.

[Saltbush Bill]

Coming off the spout was like tasting liquid macadamias. Truly delicious

Sounds like that might have potential for making a Macadamia Liqueur.

[MooseMan]

Sí amigo,yo tambien soy de experimentar con los botánicos y aparte de disfrutar es todo un reto.
Unos botánicos dominan a otros y otros dominan a unos ,es la grandeza de esta afición que te engancha cada dia más por querer encontrar la mejor harmonia dentro de la botella.

translated:
Yes friend, I am also one to experiment with botanicals and apart from enjoying it, it is quite a challenge.
Some botanists dominate others and others dominate some, it is the greatness of this hobby that hooks you more every day for wanting to find the best harmony inside the bottle.

I'm sorry.

Hey Pulidor, no need to say sorry, you wanted to contribute and juana_b helped us all out by translating, so we all win!

[MooseMan]

Super interesting post for me and very informative, thank you.

I'm about to begin my gin journey and info like this is priceless, so any and all experience you, and the other regular gin makers have I'll devour it.

I don't have a dedicated gin still yet but I'm building one.
No basket but I can add the ability to put things in the vapour path if it's warranted.

One ingredient that I'm really looking forward to experimenting with is pine needles.

In addition to pine needles also try the new growth buds.

Having a mini gin still is a lot of fun. Good luck with the build.

That's a good shout Otis thank you, I'll be out foraging soon with spring on the way, so I'll watch the trees closely and pounce once the first budding comes through!

Yes I'm enjoying the build immensely, and can't wait to get to run it in the house.

[MooseMan]

I'm in the process right now of building my distilled spirits library - 1-2L of spirit with a single herb macerated @ 40% abv, and then distilled using the airstill. I do large, overpowering amounts of a single herb in order to form a concentrate.
I have about 9 jars so far of different herbs. I will contribute a much longer post soon with tasting notes, but I recently did 40gm of Macadamia in 1.5L of neutral. Coming off the spout was like tasting liquid macadamias. Truly delicious and I cant wait to start incorporating it into some of my distillations.
Having spoken to a professional gin distiller, he recommends macadamia at x/100 - this would generate an oily flavour to the final gin.

Keep it coming Golly please!

This thread is going to turn out a golden one for me, I can feel it!

[Popeye]

Sí amigo,yo tambien soy de experimentar con los botánicos y aparte de disfrutar es todo un reto.
Unos botánicos dominan a otros y otros dominan a unos ,es la grandeza de esta afición que te engancha cada dia más por querer encontrar la mejor harmonia dentro de la botella.

Muchaaaaaacho

[Pulidor]

Sí amigo,yo tambien soy de experimentar con los botánicos y aparte de disfrutar es todo un reto.
Unos botánicos dominan a otros y otros dominan a unos ,es la grandeza de esta afición que te engancha cada dia más por querer encontrar la mejor harmonia dentro de la botella.

Muchaaaaaacho

Hola chaval! Por aquí intentando hacer una buena ginebra para cuando vengan mis amigos a casa.

[Bushman]

I posted this after attending a session on Gin at the National ADI conference. It gives ideas of botanicals and percents as a reference point. It is what I use when experimenting with other botanicals.
gin seminar

[Pulidor]

I posted this after attending a session on Gin at the National ADI conference. It gives ideas of botanicals and percents as a reference point. It is what I use when experimenting with other botanicals.
gin seminar

Grácias lo tendré mucho en cuenta

[MooseMan]

Super interesting post for me and very informative, thank you.

I'm about to begin my gin journey and info like this is priceless, so any and all experience you, and the other regular gin makers have I'll devour it.

I don't have a dedicated gin still yet but I'm building one.
No basket but I can add the ability to put things in the vapour path if it's warranted.

One ingredient that I'm really looking forward to experimenting with is pine needles.

In addition to pine needles also try the new growth buds.

Having a mini gin still is a lot of fun. Good luck with the build.

Hey Otis

I've finished building and, been running my (Little bit oddball) gin still in the kitchen for the last few weeks, and, using Odin's easy gin recipe and process as a foundation, I've got a couple of solid sippers under my belt

So I decided to experiment with the pine needles that I've already weighed out in batches and frozen.

I have already added a gin basket of sorts, to my little still, so today I did my second run with pine needles and got a really very pleasant result!

This is my botanical bill per litre if anyone is interested:-

14g juniper
4g coriander
16 fennel seeds
16 cumin seeds
10g satsuma peel in boil
10g satsuma peel in basket
1g pine needles in basket

Don't pay attention to the seeds, I've left them in for transparency only, I'm increasing the amounts by a tiny amount each batch until I can find them in the taste.

The pine flavour from this really melds well with everything else, especially the juniper. It's got a vaguely smoky aroma too. And this is fresh off the still tonight, proofed to 45% with RO water. I think time will work magic on this with melding the flavours.

I'd heartily recommend that anyone who likes a really forward and punchy, piney gin, try a small addition to the vapour path to see if they like it.

[Mares]

Hi MooseMan, I use small pot still for gin production but I do not have gin basket. I was thinking about adding pine needles in pot still and distillation process but I am not sure about "toxic" effect they might have? I read over the internet that pine needles could contain toxic compounds from the environment.

[MooseMan]

Hi MooseMan, I use small pot still for gin production but I do not have gin basket. I was thinking about adding pine needles in pot still and distillation process but I am not sure about "toxic" effect they might have? I read over the internet that pine needles could contain toxic compounds from the environment.

Hi Mares

You could put them into the boil just the same, I think you'd get the same result to be honest, I just put them in the basket because I've just added it to my little setup so I want to use it, no scientific reason at all! Haha

If pine needles do contain toxins, they would be at such tiny levels in the amounts we are talking about here, you'd have to drink literally gallons of gin in quite a short time, to get anything toxic enough to find in your system, by which time you'd be either dead from ethanol poisoning, or at least highly flammable!

There are plants with some pretty nasty compounds in that area classed as poisons/toxins, that we eat all of the time, and it just doesn't appear on anyone's radar.
Not to mention the scary stuff that gets put into the soil and sprayed onto produce!

Just don't take any needles (Or any other plants!) from the side of a busy road, or near to any factories etc and I'm sure you'll be fine.

[SouthwestAl]

Rhubarb: Will give a nice sour / earthy taste to the gin when macerated, I only used small quantity as I suspect that they may be overpowering;

Cucumber: Surprisingly very good and very flavorful when macerated. I did liked a lot the cucumber gin, a nice addition to a lot of botanicals like dill, coriandre, allspice, etc...!

Great post - thank you!

If you can get it, have a try with dried Rhubarb root - it has the pungent, rooty flavour and works really well in a maceration.

Cucumber - I tried distilling this on its own recently, having only ever infused with it post-distillation, and it was very interesting. After lightly dehydrating cucumber slices, and leaving them to macerate for 12 hours in 45% neutral, the first part out of the still was horrible - really rank! Then there was a sweet-spot that was the profile I was looking for, with the aroma and sweetness of fresh cucumber, but it pretty quickly turned into a boiled-cabbage kind of flavour. I need to run it again to be sure, but my thoughts were that it is not something I would distill together with other botanicals, because of the nasty flavours at the start, and cooked veg flavours at the end. However, isolating the good part, and blending this with a Gin would work well. I proofed down and blended the good part with a fairly standard Gin, and it was impressive how little was needed to impart that profile.

Makrut Lime Peel - one of my favourites, as it has a really good mix of citrus and piney/eucalyptus flavour. Those smelling the dehydrated peel for the first time normally react with the same thing - 'sauna!' It is powerful though, and should be used sparingly, both in maceration and in vapour path.

Tonka Bean - 'The Brazilian Vanilla' - this stuff is really sweet, nutty and vanilla-ry (?) I find it works best in a short maceration of a couple of hours at most, and in small quantities of around 0,25g per litre of maceration. I have not tried it in the vapour path. If you use it for an infusion post distillation, a 0,5g bean (roughly half a bean) gives a lovely finish to Triple Sec, and I found that 3 hours in 10 litres of triple sec distillate at around 76% abv was plenty of time. It really packs quite a punch.

Gentian root - in maceration and in small quantities, gives a good dry, herbal flavour to a Gin, much like the Rhubarb root.

Hops - I did some tests with Comet Hops, which have a pungent, citrus profile, quite like Grapefruit - works best in the vapour path, and in small amounts so it doesn't make the Gin too bitter.

[Evil_Dark]

Thanks for this great addition!