Use of plastic, silicone and PTFE stuff

[Mr_Beer]

I am confused – at least I would like some guidance. If this is the incorrect forum for this post, let me know please.

Ethanol apparently attacks some forms of plastic piping and possibly silicone piping. This forum has many opinionated discussions but no hard data that I could find.

I started out to purchase some one piece wide mouth lids for the mason jars used during storage. That led to a variety of “durable BPA-free plastic that is food-safe and long-lasting” lids available in most outlets. No discussion of safety regarding ethanol.

After my reading on this forum I may be faced with possible replacement of my tubing used in beer production. Again no discussion of safety regarding mild concentrations of ethanol.


Is there a synopsis regarding this topic that someone could point me towards?

[TwoSheds]

I doubt you're going to get a satisfactory answer, but them's the rules for this forum, so stick with it!

This topic comes up frequently (like every month or two) and neither side has provided satisfactory proof in my opinion. It does always remind me of the scene from the graduate though:

https://i.gifer.com/7C4U.gif

BUT remember that the concerns are largely around plastics other than PTFE in the still and with distilled spirits. I don't think anyone would argue that silicone hose is fine for pushing around a wort or wash at less than 10% abv.

The concerns change when you're talking about hot vapors and liquids that will frequently be above 50% and may approach 96% under certain circumstances. The "food-safe and long-lasting" claim certainly didn't have these conditions in mind.

If you come up with some new info, for or against, please share, but short of that, see my first statement.

[elbono]

Is there a synopsis regarding this topic that someone could point me towards?

You may have done a search, but definitely not a thorough one or you didn't read what it produced. There are lots of discussions on your subjects.

No one here gets paid to do your research for you, if you write a well researched synopsis of what you find and post it here it would be very appreciated I'm sure.

Low temp, low concentration use of plastic is fine, lots of people here ferment in plastic containers.

High temp and/or high concentration ethanol definitely attacks most plastics.

Silicone is not much better that other plastics at high temps and concentrations. Before I found HD I used silicone gaskets. In short order they started changing color. That's degradation in my book. They were putting stuff in my product albeit in low concentrations.

BPA mainly affects children and was used in food storage applications so it's a hot button for some people. BPA free just means it was replaced by something else that hasn't gotten a bunch of bad publicity.

[contrahead]

Is there a synopsis regarding this topic...?

How do you pronounce phthalate ? Who would create such a cumbersome word?

[zach]

I visit micro distilleries when traveling and come to conclude there are no standards for plastics in the industry.

One small distiller showed me the low wines he had collected in a white HDPE brute that day.

Another small distiller showed me the blue HDPE barrel that she purchases of neutral grain spirit to make gin.

HDPE totes of 192 proof are shipped world wide.
https://ethanolus.com/shop/gns/grain-ne ... roof-tote/

When you see videos with a plastic bucket at the spout of the still , don't think it doesn't happen close to you. It's not just a 3rd world thing.

[jonnys_spirit]

A good reason to drink homemade over commercial where you can confirm what has come in contact with the product and at what ABV / Temp.

Cheers!
-jonny

[Mr_Beer]

My research indicates that PET and HDPE materials are considered 'safe' by the FDA and many industrial sites. The FDA has restrictions on some additives for this material that are used in the home and in certain food containers.

PVC is suspect with little actual data and research available.

Many maintain that LDPE, PP, PPS and PTFE are 'safe'.

It is clear that the term 'safe' is not well defined and there is no consensus what constitutes safe.

The topic gets confused by the politics of plastic and environmental concerns. It is obvious that these types of material are used routinely in the packaging and sale of whiskey and other distilled spirits. Even Everclear is sold in plastic bottles.

elbono post is an example of opinions without data. There are many more, both here and on the Internet sites.

My hope was that there were actual scientists/engineers on this site that could point to real data with verifiable results.

I would appreciate others to help in a synopsis by posting in this thread.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

You're going to have to do your own research outside the forum on this. The forum has its stance on materials clearly defined. Change your beer lines if you want, or not. It's your decision, no one here required to lay research at your feet.