Some questions on new 100 litre still?

[AppleWood50]

As said guys just picked up this new still with a 100 litre keg boiler and a stainless steel forced reflux column.

I also have a separate pot still head and condenser that is again stainless steel. All the fittings are modular 54mm so they are interchangeable.

My questions are as follows.

The boiler has just 3.6kw of elements. Is this enough to power a 100 litre boiler?

And what is the minimum capacity that I can run this still at?

Thanks guys

[Salt Must Flow]

I have absolutely no clue exactly which still you have. You said the boiler has 3.6kw of elements. Are these elements installed through the wall of the boiler and are exposed/visible within the boiler? If so, you can run with as much or as little as you want as long as the elements stay submerged.

[Deplorable]

To figure out how little you can run the boiler with, simply fill it with water until the elements are fully submerged keeping track of how many liters you put in. If it takes 20 liters to cover the elements, you will need to do the simple math to determine how much stillage will remain in the boiler after you have removed all of the alcohol. While 3600W might be enough to run it as a pot still, your time to heat up, and strip a 100L charge will likely be woefully slow. I'm not sure about how it will handle running plates or a packed column over a 100L charge. I have 5500W available for my 50L still and run it at 4000W when stripping. Heating 42L of 13% from 70F to producing took about 45 minutes at 4000W this afternoon.

[AppleWood50]

I have absolutely no clue exactly which still you have. You said the boiler has 3.6kw of elements. Are these elements installed through the wall of the boiler and are exposed/visible within the boiler? If so, you can run with as much or as little as you want as long as the elements stay submerged.

I’m away from home right now but I’ll upload some pictures when I get back. The column and condensers are basically the same as this..

https://browin.com/shop/product/341228/ ... 18-l-hugin

Accept its mounted on a 100 litre keg with a 3600w element which is internal. Welded directly through the side of the keg.

In the past I’ve used a digiboil.. 2400w of power for its small 30 litre boiler. I was just curious how well the 3600w of elements would perform in the 100 litre keg?

As in will it be enough power for running the reflux column? And if it is then will it be enough power for stripping with my shotgun pot still head?

[NormandieStill]

If you're running a 2" packed column then 3.6kW should be enough to actually operate the column. You'll probably want to insulate the boiler to help prevent losses. From memory I run my 2" column at around 2.5kW so you've just some wiggle room.

Heat up times are going to be long and depending on your condenser so are stripping runs. I strip at 3kW because I'm limited by my liebig but I have a 4.5kW element for a 30L boiler and can get it to temperature fairly rapidly.

Do you have the fermenters to match? You're going to want two or three 100l fermenters to feed that thing (If you don't want to be always waiting for a ferment to finish to be able to run the still. On the flip side, one strip in your new big boy still will provide the low wines for a spirit run in your digiboil.

[Salt Must Flow]

Is there some type of controller to this element or does it operate at full power? The only mention of "control" is the thermometers and a "controller probe key", whatever that is. It seems that normal distilling related nomenclature is avoided in all of the literature in that link. No mention of condenser, a controller. Maybe it's a language barrier, but it seems kinda deliberate.

[shadylane]

100-liter boiler, 3.6kw element and 54mm CM column.

Depending on the packing, a 3.6kw heater might produce too much vapor for a 2" column.
It would be close to the max, before flooding happens.

For pot-stilling, 3.6kw would work good in a 100ltr pot.
More power or insulation would help speed things up, but not really needed.

Maybe it's a language barrier, but it seems kinda deliberate.

That's not nice.

[Saltbush Bill]

These are the stills with the so called "Clarifers".
As far as I am aware, no one to date has been able to explain or understand what a " clarifer" really does.
Only the manurfacturer seems to really know and they aint saying as far as I know.
There have been a couple of theories put up, but none that really make sense.
My guess is that they are there as marketing bling and jargon.

[kennstminet]

The heat up time with 3600 W for 100L @6%abv will be aprox. 140 minutes, provided the boiler has good heat insulation.
In real life, it will take a bit longer. This does not look bad.

[greggn]

My guess is that they are there as marketing bling and jargon.

I suspect the advertising consultants said that calling them "slobber boxes" would hurt sales.

[AppleWood50]

If you're running a 2" packed column then 3.6kW should be enough to actually operate the column. You'll probably want to insulate the boiler to help prevent losses. From memory I run my 2" column at around 2.5kW so you've just some wiggle room.

Heat up times are going to be long and depending on your condenser so are stripping runs. I strip at 3kW because I'm limited by my liebig but I have a 4.5kW element for a 30L boiler and can get it to temperature fairly rapidly.

Do you have the fermenters to match? You're going to want two or three 100l fermenters to feed that thing (If you don't want to be always waiting for a ferment to finish to be able to run the still. On the flip side, one strip in your new big boy still will provide the low wines for a spirit run in your digiboil.

Thanks for the advice. The 2” column that you run at 2.5kw, what kind of boiler size are you running that on?

Because honestly, even though I’ve bought a 100 litre keg still I don’t intend to ever run the boiler at 100 litres capacity on a spirit run. Only me and my wife drink the gin even if we was to only run this thing once a year we wouldn’t need to do a 100 litre spirit run. That’s just huge haha!

Now a stripping run is completely different. As doing a large stripping run allows me to drop the Abv of the wash considerably to say 6% instead of my usual 12%. Giving all the benefits of the cleaner wash and less off flavours.

From what I’m looking at I would be running 20-30 litres on spirit runs (minimum possible with the elements) and maybe 50-70 litres on the stripping runs with nice low abv wash. Even at them amounts I doubt I would have to use the still more than once or twice a year.

Regarding the elements. The still has two separate elements each 1.8kw totalling 3.6kw.

Would I be able to say run the single 1.8kw element for a 20-30 litre spirit run and both elements 3.6kw for 50-70 litre stripping runs with a 60cm riser and 60cm 54mm stainless steel shotgun condenser with 4 x 14mm pipes in condenser. Or would the 1.8kw likely overwhelm the column?

Yes I have the fermenters covered. I have 2 x stainless steel 100 litre Polsineli fermenters.

[AppleWood50]

To figure out how little you can run the boiler with, simply fill it with water until the elements are fully submerged keeping track of how many liters you put in. If it takes 20 liters to cover the elements, you will need to do the simple math to determine how much stillage will remain in the boiler after you have removed all of the alcohol. While 3600W might be enough to run it as a pot still, your time to heat up, and strip a 100L charge will likely be woefully slow. I'm not sure about how it will handle running plates or a packed column over a 100L charge. I have 5500W available for my 50L still and run it at 4000W when stripping. Heating 42L of 13% from 70F to producing took about 45 minutes at 4000W this afternoon.

Thank you I’ll definitely give this a try to calculate the minimum volume. Because this will definitely be crucial for me. I won’t want to run anywhere near the max volume of the boiler.

The 100 litre still wasn’t a first choice. I was looking for a good 30-50 litre setup but the 100 litre one was so good value that it wouldn’t have been silly to miss up.

On your 50 litre still, what power do you use for spirit runs on a column?

[AppleWood50]

Is there some type of controller to this element or does it operate at full power? The only mention of "control" is the thermometers and a "controller probe key", whatever that is. It seems that normal distilling related nomenclature is avoided in all of the literature in that link. No mention of condenser, a controller. Maybe it's a language barrier, but it seems kinda deliberate.

The boiler isn’t the one that I linked to. It’s a 100 litre keg with two 1800w elements totally 3.6kw. Just the column and condenser is the same as the one I posted a link for.

The elements don’t have any control. I can either run 1.8kw or 3.6kw.

Do you know any cheap controllers that I could use on these elements? The elements have large industrial connectors. I was told they can be connected to a 13ah power controller. But I don’t really know what a 13ah power controller is. One which has the industrial connectors anyway.

Yeah I know the browin products are sketchy with the terminology. Keep in mind though I only have the top half, the column and condenser which honestly looks relatively well made. Solid stainless steel 54mm column.

[AppleWood50]

100-liter boiler, 3.6kw element and 54mm CM column.

Depending on the packing, a 3.6kw heater might produce too much vapor for a 2" column.
It would be close to the max, before flooding happens.

For pot-stilling, 3.6kw would work good in a 100ltr pot.
More power or insulation would help speed things up, but not really needed.

Maybe it's a language barrier, but it seems kinda deliberate.

That's not nice.

If I was to run spirit runs at 20-30 litres at 1.8kw and stripping runs at 50-70 litres with 3.6kw. Do you think that would work?im assuming the 1.8kw at 20-30 litres would probably overpower the column?

[AppleWood50]

The heat up time with 3600 W for 100L @6%abv will be aprox. 140 minutes, provided the boiler has good heat insulation.
In real life, it will take a bit longer. This does not look bad.

Thanks for this. So if I was to run the boiler at say 50-70 litres for stripping that should give me far better results?

[AppleWood50]

Just a couple of additional things if anyone has any advice.

The still has 2 x 1.8kw elements. I’m told I need w 13ah controller. Does anyone know any economical power controllers that will hook up to these connectors from the elements?

And the column/condenser connects to the keg using some sort of flange pictured below. Does anyone know if I can purchase a flange to 54mm tri clamp adapter? I would like to be able to use my stainless steel shotgun condenser with this keg for stripping runs. But my shotgun condenser and riser has a 54mm tri clamp to connect to boiler and my boiler as pictured below only connects via a flange. Looking for some sort of adapter if they exist?

[MooseMan]

You could use the cheap AliExpress SCR controllers on either one, or both of your elements to give variable power.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0uBuvM

I use a pair of these on my 2kw+ elements to give plenty of headroom on power handling.
So far no issues.

I'd love a boiler your size for stripping AppleWood, it will produce a real nice volume of low wines on each strip.

I strip at full power on my 2 elements (4.4-4.8kw total) with a std keg, charged with c. 40l of wash and get a solid 12L/HR so I reckon you'll be good as long as your condenser can cope.

One element on a controller should work well on a spirit run once the boiler is all up to temp.

[kennstminet]

The heat up time with 3600 W for 100L @6%abv will be aprox. 140 minutes, provided the boiler has good heat insulation.
In real life, it will take a bit longer. This does not look bad.

Thanks for this. So if I was to run the boiler at say 50-70 litres for stripping that should give me far better results?

You never should fill a boiler up to the top.
Some mashes or washes may cause foaming and puking.
My calculation was only to give you an idea what to expect.
If you fill it with 50 liters, you need half of the time for heating up.

[MooseMan]

Just a couple of additional things if anyone has any advice.

The still has 2 x 1.8kw elements. I’m told I need w 13ah controller. Does anyone know any economical power controllers that will hook up to these connectors from the elements?

9FB4A29C-250B-455D-A8F6-BC8142AC51F5.jpeg

And the column/condenser connects to the keg using some sort of flange pictured below. Does anyone know if I can purchase a flange to 54mm tri clamp adapter? I would like to be able to use my stainless steel shotgun condenser with this keg for stripping runs. But my shotgun condenser and riser has a 54mm tri clamp to connect to boiler and my boiler as pictured below only connects via a flange. Looking for some sort of adapter if they exist?

47A683AD-9DA0-4BA0-8232-A37519D0E56E.jpeg

2892F153-4F41-48F9-904E-69100C0AFAD5.jpeg

Is this all one piece?
Cos it looks like a Tri clamp joint without the clamp?

[NormandieStill]

Thanks for the advice. The 2” column that you run at 2.5kw, what kind of boiler size are you running that on?

30L... but that's not relevant. For either a pot still or a reflux column, watts in affects the heat-up time. On a pot still, once you've got product coming over, maximum power is dictated by the PC, and the optimum power by the degree of separation you're after. In general, most people seem to agree on a run time of around 6 hours, so you'd want to size your element accordingly. When running a packed column, there's a minimum power needed to get adequate reflux for a given take-off rate, and a maximum power past which you start pushing tails up the column. These depend on the column diameter, not the still charge. Put a 2" column on a 1000L boiler and you still can't pull more than 1L / hr at 2kW without smearing tails everywhere.

I have a 4.5kW element because it's basically the maximum I can run without needing some really funky plugs, or having my still hardwired into the wall. For heat-up, I will often run at full power until I'm nearly up to temp, in order to save time. For stripping runs I'm usually at around 3kW because that's the maximum that my liebig can handle. Depending on the wash and the volume in the still I may reduce that to prevent puking (I've been down at around 800W for the first hour of a stripping run once, because it just wouldn't stop puking everywhere!). On a pot still spirit run, I may run at a constant power of 800W to 1.5kW depending on what I'm running. When running my 2" packed column on low wines, I tend to be at around 2.2kW which seems to get me clean hearts at about 600ml - 800ml / hour.

Because honestly, even though I’ve bought a 100 litre keg still I don’t intend to ever run the boiler at 100 litres capacity on a spirit run. Only me and my wife drink the gin even if we was to only run this thing once a year we wouldn’t need to do a 100 litre spirit run. That’s just huge haha!

Now a stripping run is completely different. As doing a large stripping run allows me to drop the Abv of the wash considerably to say 6% instead of my usual 12%. Giving all the benefits of the cleaner wash and less off flavours.

From what I’m looking at I would be running 20-30 litres on spirit runs (minimum possible with the elements) and maybe 50-70 litres on the stripping runs with nice low abv wash. Even at them amounts I doubt I would have to use the still more than once or twice a year.

Regarding the elements. The still has two separate elements each 1.8kw totalling 3.6kw.

Would I be able to say run the single 1.8kw element for a 20-30 litre spirit run and both elements 3.6kw for 50-70 litre stripping runs with a 60cm riser and 60cm 54mm stainless steel shotgun condenser with 4 x 14mm pipes in condenser. Or would the 1.8kw likely overwhelm the column?

Yes I have the fermenters covered. I have 2 x stainless steel 100 litre Polsineli fermenters.

Nice fermenters! I think you're going to want more control than simply switching on or off the elements. A simple chinese SCR controller will handle one 1.8kW element with little risk of burning out. You can just switch the other one as a heat-up boost.

If you're not big drinkers and don't have lots of thirsty friends, you might want to see if you can get your hands on a much smaller still as well, ideally reusing as much as possible of the kit you've already got. My 30L keg still is not very large but I have a 5L (4L max charge) hobtop still (IKEA saucepan with modified lid) for gin runs, and a 500ml glass lab still for gin (and other botanical spirits) test runs.