Something happened to my mash, WTH?

[LiteHeaded]

I will start by saying 50lbs of cracked corn run twice through a grain mill, 9lbs cracked white wheat malt, 9lbs cracked red wheat malt, 9 lbs cracked rye, 3 lbs toasted oats, and 40ish gallons of water. Poured boiling water over corn and oats in a fresh dump hosed out bourbon barrel. Once Temps got to 120 transfered to a cleaned out olive barrel. I didn't intend on Temps getting that low they stayed between 190 and 175 for five to six hours then went to bed. Woke up early the next morning and surprised by 120. Added high temp enzymes at 175 and low temp at 110. OG was right at 1.06

Things were going great, when Temps from corn cooking got down below 150 (actually close to 120 because it dropped at night quicker than I thought added the wheat and rye. Within 10 minutes of adding it started fermenting. Between stirs it would develop a cap. When Temps hit 85 I added six packs of US05. The whole thing smelled like poo. Smelled horrible. Two days later it is still bubbling away and smells like beer now. However, it has this really weird scum almost like spider webs on top. Almost like a oil slick but definitely not a petro substance just saying that as a graphical reference. I really don't know what happened or what this could be. Anyone seen anything like this before?

[LiteHeaded]

Oh, and if anyone catches the hanging bag that is a boil in the bag hanging with a dozen or so oyster shells.

[Sporacle]

Oh, and if anyone catches the hanging bag that is a boil in the bag hanging with a dozen or so oyster shells.

Use the search function type in "vomit" there's a heap of info

[Homebrewer11777]

The wheat and rye you added introduced a bunch of wild yeast and bacteria into the mash. These grains are natural products and literally covered with wild microbes. Temp was ideal for them to take off and you got all the signs of an infection in those pics and the smell you described. That spiderweb you are showing is a pellicle starting to form. In the sour beer brewing community they love pics like that and refer to them as pellicle porn. I agree with advice above to do some research on the vomit smell on this site before you go forward with a stripping run. There is some possibility you can turn this into something interesting with right treatment before before boiling. Might be as simple as letting the ferment ride and hoping that vomit smell moves on to pineapple.

Also you may not have converted either the wheat or the rye. The enzymes from the malted grains were wasted at that temperature. Not sure what you meant by low temp enzymes. If it was regular alpha amylase I believe you were already too low for those to do much. If you meant glucoamylase or something similar to that it may work. My experience with glucoamylase has always been to use it to chop up unfermentable dextrins (alpha amylse converts starch into dextrin and beta amylsase and glucoamylase convert dextrin to sugar). But reading on labels at least some glucoamyalse is capable of converting all the way from starch so maybe that is going to be ok. Did you get to target gravity?

If you had added the malts at 150-160F you would have been hot enough to kill most of the wild yeast and bacteria on those materials while still in a temperature range that the enzymes could break down the starches and dextrins. Next time this happens I'd consider heating the mash back up before adding the grains. You could do this by transferring a portion of the mash to a kettle and heating it up on stove or burner (all the way to boiling if you can without scorching) then mix it back into the main mash. Repeat until you get the main mash back up to target temp for the grain and then add the grain.

[subbrew]

Classic looking pellicle. Could be one of several bacteria, brett, lacto.... Given time it will sour your mash. Aceto would also convert the alcohol to vinegar. I would give it a week to finish fermenting and then run it before it gets too sour.

[tommysb]

That's a pretty classic Lacto pellicle. Seen it plenty of times, and distilled some good stuff despite/due to it.

It will produce lactic acid during fermentation, then under distillation, some of that will esterify to Ethyl lactate which can give a buttery flavour.

[LiteHeaded]

To those that provided me with some useful information thank you. It's kind of hard to search for something that you don't even know what the hell it is or what is happening. I digress.....

This afternoon it still looks the same but the smell has definitely become more pleasant and actually quite normal. No hints of pineapple yet. There is still some movement in the wash so it is still working. I appreciate the help and will watch it through the week and come Saturday I will check the gravity and see where we are, or I may just run it regardless of gravity just to ensure it doesn't sour or do yall think that is waiting too long? Things are easy when everything is normal and things go as planned. Thanks

[Bolverk]

Interesting thing about lactobacillus is that it actually produces a ton of different enzymes like lactase, proteases, peptidases, fructanases, amylases, bile salt hydrolases, phytases, and esterases (varying amounts depending on the specific genius)... there is so much more than just the lactic acid.

[shadylane]

Oh, and if anyone catches the hanging bag that is a boil in the bag hanging with a dozen or so oyster shells.

I'm thinking the shells aren't needed.
If the pH gets too high, the environment will favor the bacteria over the yeast.

[LiteHeaded]

Update: checked things out today. Still has the spiderweb look to it but the smell has changed ever so slightly to a pineapple smell. Almost like a pineapple raddler beer. Could be I am predisposed to it and am looking for it but it does not smell rancid or sour. Most similar to normal smell with slight hint of pineapple. Checked the gravity and it is down to 1.035 so it seems to be working. Will keep monitoring and updating. Appreciate the conversations.

[Deplorable]

Wait until it's dry, then run it. I get that lacto pellicile frequently, usually in secondary though. It has yet to have a perceived negative effect on the finished product.

[LiteHeaded]

Two days later and 1.035 much more than a hint of pineapple, more into a definite smell of pineapple.

[elbono]

Two days later and 1.035 much more than a hint of pineapple, more into a definite smell of pineapple.

Some of my infections look nasty but smell wonderful.

I'm very interested in where your SG is when it finishes.

My infections vary from mild to vigorous, I think the most vigorous tend to finish high. My current theory is I made unfermentable sugars and the infection feeds on what the yeast can't process.

[LiteHeaded]

1.02 not much change but some. Not much movement in the wash anymore. Just kind of sits there. The thin spider web looking cover has been replaced by a gross looking lumpy foam but dense about a half inch thick. It does not smell pleasant, like a faint pineapple scent is trying to mask funk. I am leaning towards dumping this, licking my wounds, chalking this up to lessons learned and starting over.

I know everyone says read the forums, the answers are in here and they probably are. But with the generous contributions from members over the years there is no way someone like me can possibly read (and remember) everything. I certainly appreciate those that have opted to help through this disaster but I am thinking the end of the road is near for this batch.

I wonder how the deer would like a pile of cooked and somewhat fermented grains?

[still_stirrin]

… The thin spider web looking cover has been replaced by a gross looking lumpy foam but dense about a half inch thick. It does not smell pleasant, like a faint pineapple scent is trying to mask funk. I am leaning towards dumping this, licking my wounds, chalking this up to lessons learned and starting over.

It looks like a lacto bacteria inoculation. The white spiderwebs start and then get fuzzy as they grow. The wash under the cap will be sour similar to grapefruit juice, but different. The longer it grows, the more sour the ferment will get until the acid level stops the bacteria. But that’ll be pH3, or so, and that will be quite sour to taste.

You could try racking it into the boiler and running it now. The product will be consumable, just not quite “top shelf”.

… I wonder how the deer would like a pile of cooked and somewhat fermented grains?

Deer probably wouldn’t want it. But the raccoons would. They like “stinky stuff”.
ss

[LiteHeaded]

Racked it off today and letting it sit to clear. I thought it smelled fairly normal. Wife came out covering her nose saying the whole place smells like vomit. Got a big ole mouthful when starting the siphon and it tasted pretty good. A little sweet with almost like a crispness to it. I was gonna dump it for the coons/deer but after today I am going to run it. What the hell, what's the worst that can happen? I will probably run it Saturday giving it two full days to clear.

[LiteHeaded]

Update: collected about 3-4 gallons from paint strainer bags suspended above some buckets. Went to pour it in the wash racked off earlier. It was clearly not done fermenting. Bubbling it ass off and has a thick foam on top. Looks nothing like it did earlier and actually smells more "normal" now. I am still planning on running it Saturday so maybe all is not lost.

[shadylane]

Don't know if I'm right, but here's how I avoid and get rid of bacteria floating on top the ferment.
It's really simple, just stir the fermenter enough to force the floating bacteria down into the mash where the environment is less hospitable.