Recipe formulation - a general question

[Mr_Beer]

By all standards I am a newbie but starting to get some experience.

Recently I have been reviewing various recipe formulations and am seeking opinions.

Many recipes in this forum , and the experienced individual contributors, provide notions of a beginning OG in the 1.060 to 1.070 range (~ 7%)

Some of the recipe books that I have been reviewing have OGs in the 1.1+ range (~10%)

Obviously, the yeast must be able to withstand the ABV of the mash potential.

Aside from yeast selection, is there any value or difference in starting with a lower OG versus a higher OG?

[jonnys_spirit]

I see 1.076 SG and 1.000 FG as 9.98%abv. 1.1 SG to 1.0 FG looks to be closer to 13.13%abv...

https://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

7-12% seems to be the range folks stick to with 12% probably being on the high side - maybe a bit too high. 7-10% is going to give you better safety margin with keeping the yeasties happy .

Depending on what you're making if it's a corn based AG you'll have thicker porridge to deal with with higher gravities..

Cheers,
j

[still_stirrin]

… Aside from yeast selection, is there any value or difference in starting with a lower OG versus a higher OG?

Higher OG gravity results from sugars in the wash/wort and these sugars increase the density (specific gravity). Therefore the higher sugar concentrations create additional pressure on the yeast cell walls and this can cause stress on the yeast during its lifecycle. The results are off flavors and possibly increased mortality (yeast kill rate).

Some strains are more tolerant to higher sugar concentrations, yet the byproducts of the fermentation process may suffer in these conditions. Beer brewers exploit this characteristic for select styles of beers to enhance congener flavors which are appropriate for their beers.

As a corollary, we (hobby distillers) tend to brew for flavors to enhance our spirits after distillation and have determined (through experience) that ferments with 10%ABV (potential) are appropriate compromise for flavor and congener control while maximizing alcohol yield.

While some yeast strains may “tolerate” OGs at 1.090 and above, they may not be the best selection for creating the flavors we desire in the finished product.

There is a saying around here (thank you NZChris), “if you want more alcohol from your fermenter, get a bigger fermenter”. The point is that there is a “point of diminishing returns” with quantity over quality.

End of sermon.
ss

[Chucker]

SS, that’s one of the most sensible and cogent set of reasons I could see to this question.
I can add that in pursuit of what I was/wasn’t looking for, that I was becoming increasing dissatisfied with some flavor I was getting from hybrid sugarheads and since I was doing a partial mash already, the next step was to just go all grain.
The only thing really holding me back was tied into the above note about a bigger fermenter. An AG, to get enough available liquid volume, just needs a bigger fermenter. And to get enough grain to get above 1.070 is a whole lot of solids. So, without having seen any of the above it just made sense that an AG using a manageable amount of grain was going to be 1.060-1.070. Any higher target is impractical. Bottom line, make more. If you want to get away from sugar boosted recipes and achieve the next level quality that makes it worthwhile, just make more.

[Bolverk]

There's also mash efficiency to take into consideration. If you build your mash bill to be a 10% abv beer, but you only got 80% mash efficiency you'll land in that 8% +/- goldilocks zone.

[Mr_Beer]

Every one of these threads unearths some approach that I may have overlooked.

To be clear, all my recipes are AG type, no sugar.

I use the Brewer’s Friend Recipe calculator https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/ ... lculator to evaluate initial grain selections. I have typically used a brewhouse efficiency of 85% as a ‘best guess’. Changing the BH efficiency to 95% yields higher ABV numbers and is probably more realistic.

My current yeast is Safale US-05 but I am considering a shift to SafSpirit M-1 because of lower cost, higher temperature range and higher ABV tolerance plus use in a variety of applications. That potential shift prompted me to ask the question.

Thicker portage like viscosity, even with enzymes, is definitely a factor I had not considered.

Thanks to everyone who help clarify my thinking on this topic.

Managing the grain bill to be less than 1.070 to a max 1.080 seems like a good approach and still allows latitude for the proposed yeast.

[Bushman]

Well said SS, newbies should bookmark our copy your post.

[Bradster68]

… Aside from yeast selection, is there any value or difference in starting with a lower OG versus a higher OG?

Higher OG gravity results from sugars in the wash/wort and these sugars increase the density (specific gravity). Therefore the higher sugar concentrations create additional pressure on the yeast cell walls and this can cause stress on the yeast during its lifecycle. The results are off flavors and possibly increased mortality (yeast kill rate).

Some strains are more tolerant to higher sugar concentrations, yet the byproducts of the fermentation process may suffer in these conditions. Beer brewers exploit this characteristic for select styles of beers to enhance congener flavors which are appropriate for their beers.

As a corollary, we (hobby distillers) tend to brew for flavors to enhance our spirits after distillation and have determined (through experience) that ferments with 10%ABV (potential) are appropriate compromise for flavor and congener control while maximizing alcohol yield.

While some yeast strains may “tolerate” OGs at 1.090 and above, they may not be the best selection for creating the flavors we desire in the finished product.

There is a saying around here (thank you NZChris), “if you want more alcohol from your fermenter, get a bigger fermenter”. The point is that there is a “point of diminishing returns” with quantity over quality.

End of sermon.
ss

This is exactly a moto iv been living by. And on some other forums iv given my comments on, iv repeated this actual statement. Again, I believe this is a greed fact,for some( or maybe just me) to want to aquire as much as possible as soon as possible.