Panela-Molasses Rum with 15% ABV

[Stags]

Holy smokes 98 degrees is wild. At that temperature how many days does it take for the fermentation to complete? I'm guessing <1 week eh?

When I have the space I will eventually procure a mini-chest freezer to do something similar, but for now just don't have a reliable heat source that I trust leaving on for 1 week, so will have to rely on the method that the other two fellows said (wrapping the carboy in blankets/insulation) and running the brew belt when I'm in the same room.

I’m still getting the kinks worked out of the protocol. First batch took 4 days, second once temps fell 3 weeks. Since temp controlled seems 5-10 days.

I’m using Hornindal Kveik, it’s temperamental, but the flavors are amazing.

[shadylane]

I haven’t noticed any ill effects with the Kveik but I’ll drop it down to 90° and see what that does. You know for science

I had to search Kveik

"Although kveik is a domesticated brewer's yeast it differs from most modern brewer's yeast in several ways: It can ferment at much higher temperatures without causing off-flavors. Ordinary brewer's yeast will usually produce off-flavors above 25C (77F), but kveik can go as high as 43C (109F) without ill effects."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kveik

[Stags]

I haven’t noticed any ill effects with the Kveik but I’ll drop it down to 90° and see what that does. You know for science

I had to search Kveik

"Although kveik is a domesticated brewer's yeast it differs from most modern brewer's yeast in several ways: It can ferment at much higher temperatures without causing off-flavors. Ordinary brewer's yeast will usually produce off-flavors above 25C (77F), but kveik can go as high as 43C (109F) without ill effects."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kveik

One of the reasons I wanted a Kveik for rum- my understanding is plantation rums ferment well over 80°

According to white labs Hornindal is good from 72-98°

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-single? ... type=YEAST

[Stags]

Holy smokes 98 degrees is wild. At that temperature how many days does it take for the fermentation to complete? I'm guessing <1 week eh?

When I have the space I will eventually procure a mini-chest freezer to do something similar, but for now just don't have a reliable heat source that I trust leaving on for 1 week, so will have to rely on the method that the other two fellows said (wrapping the carboy in blankets/insulation) and running the brew belt when I'm in the same room.

If you’re brewing on a surface that’s washable/ liquid resistant, you could do something like this:

https://a.co/d/5anLDwW

I bought that and those elements have been able to maintain temp under 1 layer of reflectix insulation. I didn’t install thermowells, just attached the probe to the side of the fermenter somewhere not covered by the heating element. I haven’t seen a temp differential more than 2° between probe reported temp and thermometer temp in the wash itself.

Given I’m fermenting in 30 and 55 gallon drums. A smaller size might be warranted for a 5-7 gallon bucket.

I’ve also got my barrels on dollies so moving them over to the still is easy peasy

I figure if something goes haywire, the garage (concrete floor) is getting cleaned out. Pity about the mash/ wash.

[vercingetoriX26]

Hi all, I suspect I have a stuck fermentation.

It's been 10 days. SG was 1.074. I'm now at day 10 at 1.018. Airlock is moving extreeeeeemely slowly- a bubble every minute or so. Ambient temperature is ~78F.

I tasted it the wash and it is still very sweet which makes me suspect the fermentation is stuck.

I had used a regular instant bread (making) yeast like the one in the link below. Since my current ABV is ~8%, I wonder if i've hit the limit of that yeast's tollerance.
https://www.loblaws.ca/quick-rise-yeast ... 2920001_EA

Would y'all recommend pitching some EC-1118 to try kick-starting this fermentation?

[shadylane]

Bakers yeast is good for 12% or more
Sounds like it's still working, so give it more time.
Also due to unfermentable sugar in the molasses, the final gravity is going to be above 1.000

[Saltbush Bill]

Give it time.....bakers can easily do 12%......forget hydrometer readings.......when it tastes dry n sour it's done.
Don't rely on an airlock to tell you if something is fermenting.....they often lie due to leaks around lids and other seals.
78f = 25c .....poor bloody bread yeast is freezing its arse off....give it some heat 30C at least.

[Yummyrum]

Like Shady said , due to the unfermentable stuff in Molasses. , it will always give a reading much higher than 1.000 when done . My all molasses washes with Dunder can start around 1.120 and finish around 1.060

Salty is right that when it is done , it won’t be sweet .
But don’t let your brain trick you . We can taste Molasses and so we can be tricked into thinking it must still be sweet.

78°F is possibly on the cooler side if ideal for Bakers yeast , if you can get a bit more heat into it , it might help .

However, 1.018 on an all Molasses wash is about as low as it will go . Not sure what proportion of Molasses yiu used , but you may not be far off done .

[vercingetoriX26]

Thank you, fellas. good point on the temperature. Hard to keep the temp up above the house's ambient temp, and I'm a cheap bastard on the home heating. Next time I'll do this in the summer for sure.
I've turned that sketchy brew belt back on and plan to do so intermittently to keep the temperature closer to the ~85 degree range hopefully. Thanks again for all your advice, this forum is fantastic.

[NZChris]

Hard to keep the temp up above the house's ambient temp....

Not according to some of the posts on this thread.

[vercingetoriX26]

Hey All. So I ended up with the following:
SG (Nov. 9)= 1.074
FG (Nov. 29)= 1.004
FG (Dec. 9)= 1.002
So 9.3% theoretical alcohol content. Judging from the taste, I somehow felt the ABV was higher (closer to 12% or so)

Anyways, I did a stripping run, ended up 7 litres worth of jars averaging 45% (according to alcoholmeter)

Next did a spirit run and broke it into 6 glass jars.
Jar 1: Temp 78-81 degrees; ABV=70%
Jar 2: Temp 81-82 degrees; ABV= 80%
Jar 3: Temp 82-86 degrees; ABV= 80 to 73%
Jar 4: Temp 85-89 degrees; ABV= 75 to 60%
Jar 5: Temp 89-94 degrees; ABV= 60 to 40%
Jar 6: Temp 92-96 degrees; ABV= 39 to 20%

To my amateur palette, neither of the jars taste/smell noticeably different (aside from obvious ABV) to suggest that either Jar 1 contains acetone or that Jar 6 contains nasty fusel oils.

Is it therefore necessary to toss out Jars 1 and 6 as Heads & Tails?

[shadylane]

Is it therefore necessary to toss out Jars 1 and 6 as Heads & Tails?

Don't toss them out, set them aside and wait.
If the jars aren't needed, you can do an all feints run or recycle them into the next run.
Next time do a forshots cut.

[JustinNZ]

It’s hard tossing out jars at the start, but you can recycle them into your next spirit run. It is hard doing cuts on rum cos it kinda doesn’t taste like rum straight of the still. I’m not there sniffing and tasting, but I recommend putting 1 and six aside - you’ll end up with a nicer product after oaking. I keep - on average - about half what comes off the still. And I could be taking tighter cuts for sure.

You’ve done well! I’ve done about twenty rum spirit runs and I’m still a beginner…

[NZChris]

If a sample blend tastes better with them than without them, include them.

[vercingetoriX26]

Cheers gents.

I'll do as advised and keep Jars 1 and 6 apart for now; maybe chucking them in with a future batch. But if they smell/taste OK after a few months of aging on oak, it wou;dn't be crazy to throw them in with the other "hearts" jars eh?
I made sure to start collecting Jar 1 no earlier than 78 degrees C and finish collecting the last jar at 20% ABV so as to avoid the nastiness on either side of the spectrum.

[Saltbush Bill]

To my amateur palette, neither of the jars taste/smell noticeably different (aside from obvious ABV) to suggest that either Jar 1 contains acetone or that Jar 6 contains nasty fusel oils.

I'll hazard a guess here and say that its your newbie nose and taste buds telling you that there is no difference between jars.
Did you cut samples of what you were tasting and smelling 50/50 with water first ? that helps a lot.....tea spoon of water , tea spoon of spirit from a jar.....make samples in drinking glasses ......keep them in front of the respective jars.
Start in the middle so as not to burn out your nose or taste buds.
Simple fact ...there is and has to be a difference between the first and last jar , that or you have run way to fast on the spirit run and smeared everything to hell and back.

I'll do as advised and keep Jars 1 and 6 apart for now; maybe chucking them in with a future batch. But if they smell/taste OK after a few months of aging on oak, it wou;dn't be crazy to throw them in with the other "hearts" jars eh?

,
Yes it would be crazy, if you've done everything right No 1 jar is going to be pure fores and stink of nail polish remover, last jar is going to stink of moldy wet carpet/ dog.
Id also suggest using more than six jars in future.......at least until you learn what your doing.....12 would be a better number.
If for arguments sake you did use 12 jars at a rough guess I wouldn't be including the first 3 at minimum.
We all gotta start some place......the sooner you get your nose trained up the sooner you'll make good booze.

[still_stirrin]

Next did a spirit run and broke it into 6 glass jars.
Jar 1: Temp 78-81 degrees; ABV=70%
Jar 2: Temp 81-82 degrees; ABV= 80%
Jar 3: Temp 82-86 degrees; ABV= 80 to 73%
Jar 4: Temp 85-89 degrees; ABV= 75 to 60%
Jar 5: Temp 89-94 degrees; ABV= 60 to 40%
Jar 6: Temp 92-96 degrees; ABV= 39 to 20%

To my amateur palette, neither of the jars taste/smell noticeably different (aside from obvious ABV) to suggest that either Jar 1 contains acetone or that Jar 6 contains nasty fusel oils.

OK, as a rum “newbie”, making cuts on a rum is challenging for sure. So, help yourself by making a “finer comb”, that is, more collection jars. More jars will help you identify the changes as you smell and taste your way through them to choose the “good from the bad”. You’ll also be able to train your palette for these subtleties. Experience will teach you a lot.

What I would do is keep jar 3 as a “white stash” for sipping as an inspiration.

And take the rest (jars 1 &2, and 4, 5, and 6) and RERUN it through the still. You may need to dilute it with water to get it back to 40%ABV, but you may be close without dilution. Then, and this is important … collect into 15 to 20 jars … you should have a pretty good idea how much your total volume will be, so just divide that by 15 and that’s roughly how much each jar should collect before changing jars.

Rerunning will help refine the collection of jars you have and it will allow you better separation between jars such that you’ll be able to discern the difference between one end of the collection from the other. More jars will help you with the “gradient” of the product as it comes offstill.

… Is it therefore necessary to toss out Jars 1 and 6 as Heads & Tails?

I wouldn’t “toss out” these jars, but you should get MORE jars. Six jars is NOT ENOUGH to make good cuts unless you made this product “umpteen times” such that you KNOW how much is hearts and how much is not.

Running a still is an “art”, so keep practicing. Soon, it’ll become 2nd nature and making cuts won’t be a dreaded task, but rather an enjoyable challenge to your ultimate rewards.
ss

[Dougmatt]

Next did a spirit run and broke it into 6 glass jars.
Jar 1: Temp 78-81 degrees; ABV=70%
Jar 2: Temp 81-82 degrees; ABV= 80%
Jar 3: Temp 82-86 degrees; ABV= 80 to 73%
Jar 4: Temp 85-89 degrees; ABV= 75 to 60%
Jar 5: Temp 89-94 degrees; ABV= 60 to 40%
Jar 6: Temp 92-96 degrees; ABV= 39 to 20%

To my amateur palette, neither of the jars taste/smell noticeably different (aside from obvious ABV) to suggest that either Jar 1 contains acetone or that Jar 6 contains nasty fusel oils.

OK, as a rum “newbie”, making cuts on a rum is challenging for sure. So, help yourself by making a “finer comb”, that is, more collection jars. More jars will help you identify the changes as you smell and taste your way through them to choose the “good from the bad”. You’ll also be able to train your palette for these subtleties. Experience will teach you a lot.

What I would do is keep jar 3 as a “white stash” for sipping as an inspiration.

And take the rest (jars 1 &2, and 4, 5, and 6) and RERUN it through the still. You may need to dilute it with water to get it back to 40%ABV, but you may be close without dilution. Then, and this is important … collect into 15 to 20 jars … you should have a pretty good idea how much your total volume will be, so just divide that by 15 and that’s roughly how much each jar should collect before changing jars.

Rerunning will help refine the collection of jars you have and it will allow you better separation between jars such that you’ll be able to discern the difference between one end of the collection from the other. More jars will help you with the “gradient” of the product as it comes offstill.

… Is it therefore necessary to toss out Jars 1 and 6 as Heads & Tails?

I wouldn’t “toss out” these jars, but you should get MORE jars. Six jars is NOT ENOUGH to make good cuts unless you made this product “umpteen times” such that you KNOW how much is hearts and how much is not.

Running a still is an “art”, so keep practicing. Soon, it’ll become 2nd nature and making cuts won’t be a dreaded task, but rather an enjoyable challenge to your ultimate rewards.
ss

I agree with everything above from SS and SBB. I also wanted to add that next time, strip to a combined low wine of less than 20% Abv. 3 primary reasons:

1. You left a lot of alcohol in the boiler if you stopped at 45%
2. Rum or any flavored spirit (ex: whiskey) is about flavor and you left a LOT of the flavor in the boiler
3. Your spirit run will come off at a slightly lower proof and land you in a better range for aging

Congratulations on the run! It only gets better from here.

[vercingetoriX26]

Thank you guys so much for the very thorough advice. This a fantastic forum.

[Stags]

I’ll echo the above and suggest reading tried a d true for tips and tricks… lots of good lessons in those