Angel Yellow yeast and corn flour

[john_bud]

Sorry, my google fu is weak, couldn't find this via search...

I'm a knob of a newb, looking to see if fine ground corn flour is usable with Angel yellow label yeast. And if it is... how much trouble is removing the "flour paste" residue post fermentation from the beer?

Im going to (wanting to anyway pending the spanking from here!) Use;

10# crack corn
2# malted barley mix from a porter recipe
4# corn flour from the grocery store
6 gal water

Angel yellow label yeast

Thanks

[Dancing4dan]

It’s a good question and the answer depends on how you intend to remove the flower paste.

Ferment on or off grain? YLY reduces a lot of corn residue with little left behind.

If a BIAB is used you will have problems. 800 micron bag for courses ground cracked corn. All flower residue will just pass through that screen. 200 micron will plug up from both types of corn.

If you intend to lauter I’m not sure you have enough barley to make it work.

If you steam strip it isn’t an issue. This is my favorite process.

I have used corn meal or flaked corn with a 800 micron BIAB and ferment on grain using YLY. There is muck left behind but I cold crash for an extended period of time and siphon off clear beer. Muck can be saved from several batches and steam stripped.

[john_bud]

It’s a good question and the answer depends on how you intend to remove the flower paste.

Ferment on or off grain? YLY reduces a lot of corn residue with little left behind.

If a BIAB is used you will have problems. 800 micron bag for courses ground cracked corn. All flower residue will just pass through that screen. 200 micron will plug up from both types of corn.

If you intend to lauter I’m not sure you have enough barley to make it work.

If you steam strip it isn’t an issue. This is my favorite process.

I have used corn meal or flaked corn with a 800 micron BIAB and ferment on grain using YLY. There is muck left behind but I cold crash for an extended period of time and siphon off clear beer. Muck can be saved from several batches and steam stripped.

Ok, sorry to have left off info.

I will ferment on grain with the Angel yellow doing the heavy lifting. Then post ferment, cold crash at 30ish F and rack off liquid. I do have a course biab bag to strain thru. But not really sure what / how to deal with the leftovers. (I'm new).

What is "steam strip" ?

[Dancing4dan]

Your method will work fine although you loose some product in the muck left behind.

What to do with the leftovers in a urban setting, garbage in well sealed bags. Or composter. Mine goes into the city compost system now.

Rural residents can use it for animal feed but they will get drunk.

Some of us are using steam generators to do still stripping runs on grain.

[Bradster68]

Rural residents can use it for animal feed but they will get drunk.

I dump mine in the clearing for deer bait. No deer yet this year,but crows and blue Jay's are well inebriated I'm sure.

[elbono]

There's a ton of info in viewtopic.php?p=7583579&sid=203d696719f ... 9#p7583579
but it is 28 pages of posts.

My take on your plan:

I would save the malt for a more conventional mash. But that's just me doing me.

My YLAY ferments have finished with less solids than normal mashes and well settled at the bottom. I usually siphon off the liquid and put the rest in a 250 micron brew bag to gravity drain. MAKE SURE YOU STIR THE STUFF ON THE BOTTOM the first two or three days.

I've only used flour once and the YLAY took off like a rocket. The overflow looked like soap suds 4 hours later. That was with entirely all purpose wheat flour so your recipe is safer, probably. Leave some head space just in case.

You're getting close to 3 lb/gallon, I like more like 2 but again that's just me

[NormandieStill]

You're getting close to 3 lb/gallon, I like more like 2 but again that's just me

The OP's ratio is pretty close to what I do with YLAY which came from the description on the packet (Or a PDF from the website, I don't recall now).

I do 8kg of fine meal to 23l of water and 42g of YLAY. This fits into a 32l fermenter with just enough headroom that even my whole grain flour batch stayed in the bucket (just).

[Salt Must Flow]

It’s a good question and the answer depends on how you intend to remove the flower paste.

Ferment on or off grain? YLY reduces a lot of corn residue with little left behind.

If a BIAB is used you will have problems. 800 micron bag for courses ground cracked corn. All flower residue will just pass through that screen. 200 micron will plug up from both types of corn.

If you intend to lauter I’m not sure you have enough barley to make it work.

If you steam strip it isn’t an issue. This is my favorite process.

I have used corn meal or flaked corn with a 800 micron BIAB and ferment on grain using YLY. There is muck left behind but I cold crash for an extended period of time and siphon off clear beer. Muck can be saved from several batches and steam stripped.

Ok, sorry to have left off info.

I will ferment on grain with the Angel yellow doing the heavy lifting. Then post ferment, cold crash at 30ish F and rack off liquid. I do have a course biab bag to strain thru. But not really sure what / how to deal with the leftovers. (I'm new).

What is "steam strip" ?

It's perfectly logical to be concerned with the flour that will not be filtered out. Jimbo's Weat Flour AG Experiment is a cool topic to read. This is a mash that uses 100% wheat flour so yours will be a bit different because it's 12# grain and 4# flour.

I have been interested in testing a batch of a 100% flour mash using two ULWD elements each operated with their own controllers. The idea is to reduce power to each element to reduce the potential of scorching during the stripping run. An alternative is to build a steam to strip just like Dancing4dan said. Jimbo's topic mentions that flour doesn't settle/clear. That's the reason flour can scorch.

[Salt Must Flow]

I suspect a clearing agent or Bentonite Clay could cause any residual flour to clear your mash just overnight after fermentation. I haven't tried it yet, but I've done this (Bentonite Clay) many times with 50 gallon sugar washes. It works very well.

[EricTheRed]

viewtopic.php?t=91490

[john_bud]

I suspect a clearing agent or Bentonite Clay could cause any residual flour to clear your mash just overnight after fermentation. I haven't tried it yet, but I've done this (Bentonite Clay) many times with 50 gallon sugar washes. It works very well.

Good suggestion. I ordered some bentonite and "super clear".

Also spent the morning making a mash.

5.5 gal water
1.5 gal backset from corn/ porter malt run
10# crack corn
4# corn flour
1# porter malt mix

After adding the malt, it thinned out so i added 4# more cracked corn. That's 19# grain to 58# water which is the 1:3 ratio Angel lists on the website. Started with the liquid boiling, added the grains and reheated back to 190F. Its now in an insulated box cooling to allow pitching the Angel yeast, which should be tomorrow morning.

Hopefully, i didn't muck it up too bad! Thoughts and suggestions welcome

[Salt Must Flow]

I suspect a clearing agent or Bentonite Clay could cause any residual flour to clear your mash just overnight after fermentation. I haven't tried it yet, but I've done this (Bentonite Clay) many times with 50 gallon sugar washes. It works very well.

Good suggestion. I ordered some bentonite and "super clear".

Also spent the morning making a mash.

5.5 gal water
1.5 gal backset from corn/ porter malt run
10# crack corn
4# corn flour
1# porter malt mix

After adding the malt, it thinned out so i added 4# more cracked corn. That's 19# grain to 58# water which is the 1:3 ratio Angel lists on the website. Started with the liquid boiling, added the grains and reheated back to 190F. Its now in an insulated box cooling to allow pitching the Angel yeast, which should be tomorrow morning.

Hopefully, i didn't muck it up too bad! Thoughts and suggestions welcome

If you read up on clearing, a lot of people say it's best to add the clearing agent as it is fermenting rather than after fermentation. I tried it both ways and I prefer to add it after fermentation and after thoroughly degassing. To degass, I just toss a submersible pump in the fermenter and let it run for at least a couple of hours. I then add the clearing agent or the hydrated Bentonite Clay letting the pump thoroughly blending it in. I pull the pump out and clearing starts immediately. I let it sit overnight and I can see the bottom of my 55 gal drum fermenter. Whenever I've added Bentonite Clay during fermentation, once fermentation has finished, I always get a nasty, foamy clay cap on top. Even if I mix it back in, it always floats back on top again. Even if I use the pump to thoroughly blend it back in, it always forms again. I'll always clear after fermentation.

I'm not absolutely sure, but clearing your mash may remove some flavor. It certainly cleans up my sugar washes and makes tails super compressed and low odor & flavor. A good clearing makes a significant difference when I'm making neutral.

[NZChris]

You won't catch me using neutral protocols to make whiskey, I want the flavors in my collection jug not in my compost.

[john_bud]

Just checked, my well insulated mash is cooling VERY slowly. At 1pm it was 180F, at 8pm its 140 F. From reading the Angel yeast website, this seems to be the thing to do to fully hydrolyze the starches prior to adding the yeast at 95F.

Being only my 2nd grain attempt, first ALL grain and first Angel yellow... well, I'm apprehensive! Lol.

[Saltbush Bill]

From reading the Angel yeast website, this seems to be the thing to do to fully hydrolyze the starches prior to adding the yeast at 95F.

Could you provide a link to that particular site or Web page please?

[john_bud]

From reading the Angel yeast website, this seems to be the thing to do to fully hydrolyze the starches prior to adding the yeast at 95F.

Could you provide a link to that particular site or Web page please?

https://en.angelyeast.com/utils/tagsRel ... el%20Yeast

[Dancing4dan]

From reading the Angel yeast website, this seems to be the thing to do to fully hydrolyze the starches prior to adding the yeast at 95F.

Could you provide a link to that particular site or Web page please?

https://en.angelyeast.com/utils/tagsRel ... el%20Yeast

What I see is two main methods for using YLY. Cooked and non cooked. I use the non cooked method.

The “solid fermentation of cooked grain” method is new to me. 100 kg of rice using 6Kg (6L) of water… that is interesting to say the least! Not sure how I would get that through a still though… wonder how liquid this is after fermentation.

[Dancing4dan]

The site answers my own question.

https://en.angelyeast.com/blog/distille ... ucing.html

[Saltbush Bill]

Thanks for the link.
I've used the non cooked method quite a bit and it works fine that way.

[john_bud]

Update - stirred the pot of mash at 11am - thick as cement and near solid on the bottom. Added angel yellow in 2 portions after letting them hydrate 20 min. In an hour it loosened up a bit with small foam on top. Now after 3 hours, loose as soup and loads of bubbles.

Looks to be humming along fine