50 l beer keg where to put the heating elements

[joschi]

i want to install 2 heating elements in my 50 liter beer keg, one as deep down as possible, of course, and the second on top of it. Where would you reccomend this? Direct on top, or in a 90 degrees angle? Is there any difference? I thought i ask bevore i drill the holes for the elements....

Thank you

[Tōtōchtin]

I don't think you would want one above the other as I believe it's best to have your elements as low as you can get them.If there was no choice the 90* would cover more area.
Tōtō

[MooseMan]

If you can, have both elements at the same level as low as possible.
Are they too long to have on 90° angles around the keg?
If so, could you "Manipulate" the keg wall where the fittings are being put in, to have them both angled away from the centre so they don't touch?

[OtisT]

i want to install 2 heating elements in my 50 liter beer keg, one as deep down as possible, of course, and the second on top of it. Where would you reccomend this? Direct on top, or in a 90 degrees angle? Is there any difference? I thought i ask bevore i drill the holes for the elements....

Thank you

I would recommend first two parallel elements at the same lowest level, or the second element can be above the first, at an offset angle. I assume you know that the powered element at the highest level will determine how low a volume you can handle.

I don’t think the offset angle matters too much inside the boiler and 90 degrees is a good option. For me the offset angle would be about power cable management coming from your boiler. The cables for two parallel elements at the same level coming off the same side will dress nicely. If you need to stagger height, I would use somewhere around a 30 degree offset. Enough offset that you can stack the elements closely while also allowing you to work with element triclamps that do not get in each other’s way.

[Salt Must Flow]

i want to install 2 heating elements in my 50 liter beer keg, one as deep down as possible, of course, and the second on top of it. Where would you reccomend this? Direct on top, or in a 90 degrees angle? Is there any difference? I thought i ask bevore i drill the holes for the elements....

Thank you

Do you know exactly which elements you intend to use? If so, usually it lists the dimensions like how long the element protrudes inside the boiler. Once you know that dimension, you can tell if having them at the same level could be a contact issue. 240V ULWD elements are designed in such a way that they do not contact eachother when installed at the same height.

[OtisT]

Parallel like this, they can be at the same elevation.

[Salt Must Flow]

ULWD elements can be installed pretty much anywhere you want. They can each be twisted to ensure that they do not contact eachother. Here's just two different orientations as an example. Whether they're installed opposing eachother or installed perpendicularly, they can be oriented to not contact eachother even though they're installed at the exact same height.

[MooseMan]

Parallel like this, they can be at the same elevation.

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at Otis.
Either grind the fittings to create the angle, or manipulate the keg wall.

[joschi]

THAT'S what these bends a for *hahahah* (not only, i know, also for reducing the lenght) i didn't think about that.

Thank you so much, glad i did ask bevore drilling the holes!

[joschi]

Another question: Can i use this to control a 2500 Watt heating element? I would install a van to its side.

[Demy]

If it can handle that power it's ok, better if oversized. Inside there will certainly be an SCR module.

[MooseMan]

Yes at 10000w that is nicely over spec for a 2500w element. (I'd always go more than double headroom on these Chinese jobs)
I've bought one for my next project and I tested it with an element just below that wattage on a strip run, no problem at all.

[joschi]

tank you MoosMan, does it need a fan?

[MooseMan]

Well mine did not even warm up during the almost 2hrs run, but I did have it sat on the cold cast iron bed of my band saw.

[joschi]

oh well then, i will need a band saw on my shopping list... just kidding.

The holes for the elements are drilled, as well for the 6" cleaning port, (watch the space if you are doing this, so you have enough place for the clamps between the 2" und 6"!! Someone had a problem with this, i hope i measured right)
the 6" took me a while, the drilling maschine get hot after a few minutes, and i had to stop drilling to let it cool down. And i think the drill bit didn't cut very well at the end ("cheap" chinese drill, but still quite expensive)

Just one more 2" hole to do and then off to the welder it goes, hope it dosn't take too long to weld. Cant wait for it...

[MooseMan]

Nice clean holes there joschi, that's a great start.

If you can find a little chunk of Ali plate to sit the controller on, that will suck away heat if it does produce any.
If it does get hot on long runs, then you could always add a fan as you mentioned.

Pop some pics up when you're further along for us all to see.

[joschi]

yesterday, i brought the keg to the welder. He warned me, that the 6" ferrule could (or will) warp. TIG welding. Do you think it really will happend?

Is there a better way than TIG welding? Or should i find another better welder? My first choice is more of a "hobby" welder, besides he estimates a month for the job. I could maybe find a proffessional welder.

would be a pita if the welding goes wrong...

[MooseMan]

If he's a hobby welder and is not that confident I'd be careful.

He probably won't back flush the keg either, so you'll be at greater risk of corrosion later on.

You could solder it on yourself if you're willing to learn and buy what's needed?

[Bolverk]

yesterday, i brought the keg to the welder. He warned me, that the 6" ferrule could (or will) warp. TIG welding. Do you think it really will happend?

Is there a better way than TIG welding? Or should i find another better welder? My first choice is more of a "hobby" welder, besides he estimates a month for the job. I could maybe find a proffessional welder.

would be a pita if the welding goes wrong...

Your welder is not wrong, it can warp if he goes to hot/fast.
What my guy did was, tack the ferrule in place at 3 points, then do 1/2" welds at 3 spots (@ 0°, 120°, and 240°). Then proceeded to weld 1" long sections at a time. Unless your guy is back purging, you're going to have a lot of contamination and porosity.

[higgins]

Maybe a 6" cap and tri clamp added to the ferrule will keep it from warping while being welded?

[joschi]

Thanks for the tips, i gave them to him, and gently asked if i should ask someone else....

[MooseMan]

Yeah if you have to explain to him about stitch welds to prevent heat warping the parts, he's probably not your guy.

[joschi]

This guy was f...ing kidding me! Look what he brought to me TODAY, just a few hours after i brought the stuff to him. No warping whatsoever! For me it looks perfect. Of course i have to test for leaks, we will see.

I just have to passivate the weldings, any tips for that? I'm searching the web for a good product.
Can/should i put this on the inside as well? I think so...

[Salt Must Flow]

Beautiful!

[Wildcats]

Looks like it's all coming together for you. Won't be long now.... Thanks for sharing. Cheer's

[MooseMan]

Cracking job!

Get yourself some citric acid for passivating.
Very basic method to get the job done.
Clean up the all of the welds and surrounding areas with a fresh new Scottie pad, then smear a citric paste all over the cleaned areas and leave for around an hour.
Wipe off until fully dry, leave overnight before wetting, and your done.

[Deplorable]

I have to say, I had my doubts that those two element holes were going to work that close together, but damned that looks like a good fit to me.

[joschi]

Controller box finished (didn't test it yet, i'm waiting for approvement from an friend who is electric expert)
The wooden box took me a while, but i love doing stuff like that. The wiring was easy.

Little detail: The box is from a well known spirit producer

I have also the black control box mentioned bevore, just in case.... it's good to have a spare one.

[Salt Must Flow]

NICE! I hope the fan makes a big difference.