Shady's Sugar Shine

[shadylane]

But yes , extra fizzing around a calcium carbonate source is due to the gas released as it reacts with the acidic environment in the fermentation .Finer Shell grit will release a lot more gas than say a few whole shells due to the significantly higher surface to volume of the Calcium Carbonate used .

Due to the water here being low on minerals, I don't rinse the dust off the grit before use.
The finer grit gets consumed during the first day or two, when the yeast is going crazy.

At first a sugar wash has very little buffering ability, ie the pH can be changed easily.
Once fermentation starts the pH can drop dramatically if something isn't done.
As the fermentation produces acid, it will react with the calcium and produce the buffer needed to keep the pH relatively constant.

[PoolGuy]

I just finished two back-to-back 15gal batches of rock solid SSS. Both batches followed the same protocol, fermenting out at 86F.

I had some Red Star DADY and some Fleischmann's instant dry, both equally fresh, in the fridge. The first 15gal batch was made with sacrificial Fleischmann's for food and DADY for pitching. The second batch was made from sacrificial DADY and Fleischmann's for pitching. I don't think the yeast has a cannibalistic preference, but in both cases they did not eat their own kind. I believe the difference that I observed was in the pitching yeast, not the "nutrient" yeast. But what do I know?

My observation: Pitching with DADY took seven days to ferment, and pitching with Fleischmann's "baker's yeast" finished in five days with an overall cleaner result. I am sure there is a technical/analytical reason. But for us novices, we are stillin' with the tidbits of knowledge that we manage to acquire.

My two cents - use baker's yeast, at least for this recipe.

To quote shadylane: "I use cheap bakers yeast."

FOLLOW THE RECIPE

[Yummyrum]

I just finished two back-to-back 15gal batches of rock solid SSS. Both batches followed the same protocol, fermenting out at 86F.

I had some Red Star DADY and some Fleischmann's instant dry, both equally fresh, in the fridge. The first 15gal batch was made with sacrificial Fleischmann's for food and DADY for pitching. The second batch was made from sacrificial DADY and Fleischmann's for pitching. I don't think the yeast has a cannibalistic preference, but in both cases they did not eat their own kind. I believe the difference that I observed was in the pitching yeast, not the "nutrient" yeast. But what do I know?

My observation: Pitching with DADY took seven days to ferment, and pitching with Fleischmann's "baker's yeast" finished in five days with an overall cleaner result. I am sure there is a technical/analytical reason. But for us novices, we are stillin' with the tidbits of knowledge that we manage to acquire.

My two cents - use baker's yeast, at least for this recipe.

To quote shadylane: "I use cheap bakers yeast."

FOLLOW THE RECIPE

I’m confused about the Cannibals Poolguy ……. Especially the bit where you said “ in both cases they did not eat their own kind “

Did you test Fleischmann’s with sac Fleischmann’s and Dady with Dady sac ? ….not sure how you concluded that .

[Wildcats]

I use red star all the time for SSS. Works great! Always boil some for nutrients. Never had a problem yet. Cheer's

[PoolGuy]

For clarification, I user sacrificial Fleischmann's with DADY to ferment - came out great (as Wildcats also states).

Then I used sacrificial DADY with Fleischmann's to ferment - came out a touch faster and cleaner.

If the sacrificial yeast is food for the fermentation yeast, then in neither case did the fermentation yeast "eat it's own kind", but they both came out great.

[Steve Broady]

If the sacrificial yeast is food for the fermentation yeast, then in neither case did the fermentation yeast "eat it's own kind", but they both came out great.

Just to check my own understanding.. you’re saying that they never got a chance to eat their own kind, NOT that you tested it and found that they had a preference, correct?

[PoolGuy]

If the sacrificial yeast is food for the fermentation yeast, then in neither case did the fermentation yeast "eat it's own kind", but they both came out great.

Just to check my own understanding.. you’re saying that they never got a chance to eat their own kind, NOT that you tested it and found that they had a preference, correct?

Yes, that is correct. My uneducated guess is that yeast strain, once killed in boiling water to make a nutrient (food), matters little. My observation was that the Fleischmann's used for FERMENTING worked slightly faster and cleaner than the Red Star DADY yeast used for FERMENTING. It just so happened that I used opposite strains for the nutrient sources.

Given a choice, I will use Fleischmann's for FERMENTING SSS in the future. I did not mean to be confusing by delving into the strain used for nutrient, but I did want to point out that they were indeed different and opposite than the strain used for fermenting.

[TwoHedWlf]

The oyster grit/coral, do you need to throw it in a bag or something? I've got CRAPLOADS of coral fingers left from when I had a reef tank years ago, so I'm planning on just giving it a bit of a boil to sterilize and clean it then throw small handful in the bottom of the fermenting barrel if that's ok.

Was planning to do that today, but forgot I need DAP and Epsom Salt.

[shadylane]

I'd use some kind of a mesh bag or sock.
Makes it easier for cleaning up.

[TwoHedWlf]

The oyster grit/coral, do you need to throw it in a bag or something? I've got CRAPLOADS of coral fingers left from when I had a reef tank years ago, so I'm planning on just giving it a bit of a boil to sterilize and clean it then throw small handful in the bottom of the fermenting barrel if that's ok.

Was planning to do that today, but forgot I need DAP and Epsom Salt.

Well, this has turned out to be a bit of a cluster...

DIdn't realize the vitamins I got also had prebiotics, went and checked there were no vitamins WITHOUT prebiotics at the store. Boiled them with the yeast to kill the little buggers.

Homebrew shop hasn't had DAP in a few months. Grabbed a packet of nutrients instead.

Went to 3 shops, only epsom salt I could find was for baths, but was pure mag sulfate with nothing anything else so...Good enough?

And after mixing everything up realized the nutrients was yeast and nutrients. Well didn't seem to have been much yeast, so I'll cut back on the baking yeast a little.

Oh well, it's all for fun, we'll see how it turns out.

[Yummyrum]

.


Homebrew shop hasn't had DAP in a few months. Grabbed a packet of nutrients instead.

Went to 3 shops, only epsom salt I could find was for baths, but was pure mag sulfate with nothing anything else so...Good enough?

I’m sure if you check the ingredients on the Nutrient you bought , it will contain DAP and Magnesium Sulphate ( Epsom Sats) as well as other stuff .

But in any case , the stuff for baths will do so long as it isn’t perfumed or the likes .

[TwoHedWlf]

I’m sure if you check the ingredients on the Nutrient you bought , it will contain DAP and Magnesium Sulphate ( Epsom Sats) as well as other stuff .

"Yeast nutrients, vitamins, trace minerals." Not more specific than that. I was more thinking about the different type of yeast though. Guess it will just add variety.

[Yummyrum]

I’m sure if you check the ingredients on the Nutrient you bought , it will contain DAP and Magnesium Sulphate ( Epsom Sats) as well as other stuff .

"Yeast nutrients, vitamins, trace minerals." Not more specific than that. I was more thinking about the different type of yeast though. Guess it will just add variety.

I don’t think it actually contains yeast but is merely the nutrient that you add to what ever yeast you use .

[TwoHedWlf]

I’m sure if you check the ingredients on the Nutrient you bought , it will contain DAP and Magnesium Sulphate ( Epsom Sats) as well as other stuff .

"Yeast nutrients, vitamins, trace minerals." Not more specific than that. I was more thinking about the different type of yeast though. Guess it will just add variety.
[/quote]
I don’t think it actually contains yeast but is merely the nutrient that you add to what ever yeast you use .
[/quote]
It also includes dried yeast, but I left that out as I was just referring to the nutrients.

[TwoHedWlf]

Did my distilling run, after discarding the bad tasting heads and tails I ended up with about 1.5L vs previous runs of about 2.5L with 6kg of sugar and turbo yeast. Close enough to similar amount of alcohol per kg of sugar, but it definitely is more neutral tasting. I'm thinking I'll get another fermenting barrel and run two at once, I can do two stripping runs and then combine them into a single spirit run. Seems to be some saying stripping and spirit runs aren't necessary on a reflux setup, but it seems to be better at least as far as my limited ability to taste.

[NZChris]

... but it seems to be better at least as far as my limited ability to taste.

And to me. I've always done ferments that will fill my boiler at least three times.

[Osse87]

Hello, I have a batch of this in the making, it's finished fermenting and I've cold crashed it. About 24 hours ago I checked the clarity and I was impressed that it seemed so clear. Then I went to bed and next morning I woke up I noticed the wash had frozen just a little (small lumps of ice floating around), and now it seem impossible to clear. I'm starting to think it was just a dream with the clear wash after ~10h of cold crashing before it froze, or could freezing have done something to it so it won't clear? I'm using potassium carbonate instead of oyster shells for pH control if it makes any difference

[MooseMan]

It's possibly just a chill haze and nothing at all to worry about.

When it's being distilled you don't have to drop it clear like you would with brewing anyway.

[TwoHedWlf]

Finally tracked down 400g of DAP. Is that 3 tablespoons of DAP for 20 gallons right? So I'll be using 1 tablespoon per my 26L fermenter. Seems like most other recipes use more like teaspoons. And that's without going into the difference in US, Imperial, Australian tablespoons.

[kennstminet]

I think 1 gram DAP per Liter, or 3.8 grams per US Gallon is the right amount for sugar washes.
I have no idea about the weight of a tablespoon of DAP.

[TwoHedWlf]

I think 1 gram DAP per Liter, or 3.8 grams per US Gallon is the right amount for sugar washes.
I have no idea about the weight of a tablespoon of DAP.

Huh, google says 1.62 g/ml, 15ml tbsp=24 grams= 24 liters per tablespoon. Sounds about right then.

[Saltbush Bill]

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ugar_Shine
Metric Translation for 25L Ferment

4.5 kg Sugar
1.2L Boiling water +1/4 cup yeast
3 Vitamin B crushed
Pinch Epsom Salt
1 Tablespoon DAP
1/2 cup crushed oyster shell/coral shell grit
40 grams baker's yeast to pitch

[Yummyrum]

Yeah it sounds excessive . I remember shovelling 8 table spoons into a 180l fermenter and thinking WTF .
I did it a second time but in the third time I cut back to 4 tablespoons and noticed no difference .

I’m not advocating using less , but for me, halving the amount made no noticeable difference . I stick with that .
YRMV

[TwoHedWlf]

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ugar_Shine
Metric Translation for 25L Ferment

4.5 kg Sugar
1.2L Boiling water +1/4 cup yeast
3 Vitamin B crushed
Pinch Epsom Salt
1 Tablespoon DAP
1/2 cup crushed oyster shell/coral shell grit
40 grams baker's yeast to pitch

Heh, yeah, I've got a not with basically exactly that on my desktop that I converted myself. Made up two fermenters last night. Previously without did it without DAP, we'll see what it looks like with a tablespoon each this time.

[Zacher]

First go at SSS for a neutral to make some Gin.

• I threw the mulitvites in the boil with the yeast and epsom salt. I figured it was easier than trying to grind up 5 pills. Any issues there?

• I didn't have any oyster shells so I let it take off straight away. Not sure of the initial PH but I have hard water.

• Took off within an hour and after 12 hours it was rocking but I checked PH anyway and it was low 3s. So I added a tablespoon of Pickling Lime in water to bring it to 3.93.

• After another 10 hours I checked PH again and it was down to 3.83 but still bubbling pretty hard so I added a heaping teaspoon of PL in water which seemed to ramp it up again full throttle. I will check PH again in another 12 hours or so BUT....

Shady mentioned earlier that "Too much Pickling Lime often leads to blue distillate." How much is too much? It's all I have to keep this from PH crashing!

SG was 1.065, 6G fermenter started at 94F. Garage is at ~80-82F so I think the wash is still in the high 80s/low90s with the vigorous fermentation.

Any and all comments/recommendations welcome. So far it's been an amazing recipe and I'll get some shells for next time but for now I hope I can save this one from crashing and/or turning blue!

[OtisT]

Any and all comments/recommendations welcome. So far it's been an amazing recipe and I'll get some shells for next time but for now I hope I can save this one from crashing and/or turning blue!

Marble chips/marble rocks are a great alternative to oyster shells if you have trouble finding the shells. Can be found at many big box home improvement stores or landscaping supply stores. viewtopic.php?t=91009

[Zacher]

Awesome Otis! If I'm heading back down the pH road again, there is a Lowe's 10 minutes away. Thanks for the tip.

Good post salt. Couldn't find that one.

[shadylane]

Based on the pH#s everything should be good. Blue isn't a problem until the pH gets above 7.
The reason I don't like to use pickling lime is the need for "accurate" measurements.
Next time, when using crushed shell put it in a sock, that way you can take it out after fermentation is done.

I'm lazy and grinding vitamins sounds like work, so I put some water in the pill bottle as soon as I get them. The pills melt and all I have to do is give it a shake before use.

[Zacher]

Thanks Shady, good to know on the pH. I'll check it tomorrow but I don't think it will be anywhere near 7. I'm guessing low 4s but I'll report back. I have plenty of hop bags and paint strainer bags in my brewing supplies so good to go for the next run when I get some shells.

I'll report back on the run as well. Thinking strip in pot mode on my column and then spirit on reflux for the low wines.

[shadylane]

Pot mode or even a little bit of reflux on the strip.
Just to hold back the tails so there's less to deal with on the spirit run.
It takes longer stripping with reflux but you can get more of the alcohol out before tails start.

Basically, the first and most important tails cut happens on the stripping run, when you shut off the heat and drain the pot.