Chemical smell

[FiveoClock]

So, let me start from the beginning. Got the new $50 stainless steel still off of Amazon, brought her home, did a vinegar run, and then a straight water run, and then a cheap vodka sacrificial run. Made me a peach wash that I got from the recipe part of the Forum, smelled like crap from the beginning but I thought maybe that's what it was supposed to smell like. Ran fine for a couple hours and then it puked on me, got everything cleaned up and started back the next day with the other half of the wash( the wash did sit in the pot all night, until I started the next day) From the first drop to the last drop had a very chemical smell, so I discarded the forshots, poured everything else back into the original wash and ran it again. It did come out smelling a little bit better but very very little, but it was very clear. At this point I'm kind of remembering back to when I did my Straight water run, seems like I remember there being a chemical smell there as well. So I tore the whole thing down soaked it in a star San acid sanitizer for 30 minutes and then ran that same sanitizer through the still. That's the point I am at now I was going to run it through the stilll for about 30 minutes and then pour everything out, and do another just plain Jane water run. Shouldn't distilled water smell and taste like regular water? Any clues where I am getting this chemical smell and taste from? Thanks again for all your help this is been an awesome learning experience.

[greggn]

Any clues where I am getting this chemical smell and taste from?

Unless you changed them out, it's probably from the rubber and/or silicone gaskets and seals.

[FiveoClock]

Yes I took out all the gaskets in the hoses and on the thumper, I could not do the pot itself, it was to big. Everytime I tried wrapping the PTFE plumbers tape around it, it just went all over the place. I was searching the forum and someone said they found some think PTFE tape not the thin stuff I have, but I cant find that anywhere.

[The Booze Pipe]

Can you post a picture of the entire setup as used?

[The Booze Pipe]

Yes I took out all the gaskets in the hoses and on the thumper, I could not do the pot itself, it was to big. Everytime I tried wrapping the PTFE plumbers tape around it, it just went all over the place. I was searching the forum and someone said they found some think PTFE tape not the thin stuff I have, but I cant find that anywhere.

I just received this thick ptfe tape. I haven’t given it a go yet but It looks like it’s going to work fine.


I can’t get the link to work. Search Amazon for Lamons Expanded Joint Sealant PTFE, 3/8” Wide x 25 feet Long, (1 Spool), White (EJS.1500.37525)

[still_stirrin]

“Chemical smell”?

Alcohol is a “chemical” … and it has a smell. And it is a unique and distinct smell. But other fermentation byproducts (congeners) are also “chemicals” and they too have distinct smells.

To me, it sounds like you are too inexperienced to know what you’re smelling. And your description does very little to help us troubleshoot your concerns, or if they are even warranted. What you’re getting offstill might be exactly what anybody else would get if they distilled the same wash you’ve made.

So, if you need more assistance in solving the puzzle, you must give better descriptors of what you're sensing. We can’t see, smell or taste your product on this end of the computer, so YOU have to describe it for us. And you need to be critical of your senses and use the correct words to describe your senses.

Relate smells to common (known) perceptions, ie - “apple fruitiness”, “acetone”, “fingernail polish remover”, “paint stripper”, or even “sanitizer solution”.

Taste the product and describe what you taste, ie - “salty”, “putrid like vomit”, “apple, orange, or lemon fruit”, “spicy/peppery”, “cinnamon-like”, or other well-know flavor sensations.

If you believe you’re smelling and tasting soft goods, ie - silicone rubber having been dissolved into your product, or a breakdown of polyethylene (PEP) in it, then you should be able to describe it in terms of those plastics. But, understand that your sensitivity to the plastics is probably very high, so it should be easily detected.

In conclusion, it is easy to separate the congener constituents from the purer alcohol(s) by re-distillation and better cuts than it is to eliminate plastic and rubber components from the product. The dissolved plastics and rubber cannot be filtered effectively and additional distillations only concentrates the contamination.

However, if nothing else, this experience can be a good teacher as to what NOT to do, or encourage you to “do it better” next time. Without doubt, this hobby has a “learning curve” and sometimes it is very steep for some hobbyists.

Good luck and be safe, responsible, and discrete.
ss

[FiveoClock]

Thanks for all the help, just finished the water run and the smell is still there but getting better. The first 2 jars smelled so bad I would not even taste it, by the 3rd I could smell it, but the wife said she could not so I tasted it. It was not bad, but I could taste exactly what I would think that smell would taste like? It is a very hot acid taste in the alcohol, so bad it was like that burning when you throw up in your mouth. The last jar of water tasted like water but with a hint of that smell when you drank it. I think I am going to run to food lion and buy distilled water and do a taste test. Here is a pic of my setup for now.

[FiveoClock]

Yes I took out all the gaskets in the hoses and on the thumper, I could not do the pot itself, it was to big. Everytime I tried wrapping the PTFE plumbers tape around it, it just went all over the place. I was searching the forum and someone said they found some think PTFE tape not the thin stuff I have, but I cant find that anywhere.

I just received this thick ptfe tape. I haven’t given it a go yet but It looks like it’s going to work fine.


I can’t get the link to work. Search Amazon for Lamons Expanded Joint Sealant PTFE, 3/8” Wide x 25 feet Long, (1 Spool), White (EJS.1500.37525)

That looks like it would be thick enough,will order today! thanks !

[The Booze Pipe]

Yes I took out all the gaskets in the hoses and on the thumper, I could not do the pot itself, it was to big. Everytime I tried wrapping the PTFE plumbers tape around it, it just went all over the place. I was searching the forum and someone said they found some think PTFE tape not the thin stuff I have, but I cant find that anywhere.

I just received this thick ptfe tape. I haven’t given it a go yet but It looks like it’s going to work fine.


I can’t get the link to work. Search Amazon for Lamons Expanded Joint Sealant PTFE, 3/8” Wide x 25 feet Long, (1 Spool), White (EJS.1500.37525)

That looks like it would be thick enough,will order today! thanks !

It’s a little less than .125”thick Also check out
viewtopic.php?t=92060

[FiveoClock]

I am wondering if I just dump the 4 or 5 jars of the first run back in the still and runn it again, might as well it is undrinkable now. Or should I just throw everything away and start with a new wash? I do have one that has beeen sitting for 2 seeks now, so it is ready to go. I just hate to throw it away if it can be saved.

[Dancing4dan]

I’m not sure any amount of cleaning runs can clean the inside of corrugated stainless steel (CSS). By its very nature it will capture liquid in each of those corrugated rings. CSS would make the still smear like crazy.

Replace the CCS with copper line. Make sure you have no low spots that can capture liquid.

If you are running just water through the still and getting a smell and flavour it is coming from the still gaskets or trapped in the CSS.

Somewhere there is a post where a member replaced the CSS with copper.

[The Booze Pipe]

I am wondering if I just dump the 4 or 5 jars of the first run back in the still and runn it again, might as well it is undrinkable now. Or should I just throw everything away and start with a new wash? I do have one that has beeen sitting for 2 seeks now, so it is ready to go. I just hate to throw it away if it can be saved.

If you used any plastics anywhere in your distillation process for sure toss it. Catch jars should be glass, anything to direct distillate off and away from still should be copper or stainless… no hoses.

Like Still Stirrin said, alcohol is a chemical made up of other chemicals. I think you said you fermented fruit? That can come across as a strong chemical smell. Reference a Jamaican rum like Appletons, to me it has a strong chemical/heads smell.

Are these low-wines or cuts from a spirit run? Set it aside, and come back to it later if low-wine. If they are cuts, let them air out for a day, then reassess.

In general, low wines should taste good, or pleasant. Heads and tales in a spirit run are rather unpleasant. In general.

[Saltbush Bill]

Got the new $50 stainless steel still off of Amazon,

I would expect a $50 still to produce anything much better.

I’m not sure any amount of cleaning runs can clean the inside of corrugated stainless steel (CSS). By its very nature it will capture liquid in each of those corrugated rings. CSS would make the still smear like crazy.

As pointed out corrugated pipe is going to smear like crazy.

The first 2 jars smelled so bad I would not even taste it,

Of course it's bad, your still in heads.......or should be, and the third won't be much better.
I can't imagine a $50 still being very big boiler wise, so you need to be making lots of small cuts in small jars.

[The Booze Pipe]

What yeast did you use? Give other details on your brewing and fermenting process?

[FiveoClock]

I think I got it figured out, but I still want to answer some question, so I can learn. I followed the peach recipe from Bike Mark viewtopic.php?p=7732112&hilit=peach+recipe#p7732112

followed it to a "T" and even massaged him when I had a question. (good guy) smelled great tasted great, started bubbling right when he said it would, I was on cloud nine, lol got the new rigg read all the problem with it and spent a day pulling out the gaskets and making my own. However, could not find the PTFE think stuff like sadie33 had in the gasket making thread. So I thought I changed every other one, that one gasket cant hurt, right! WRONG! after all those run from up above I thought I would clean it again. When I pulled the cover off, I was hit in the face with that smell. But remember it is only water I was distilling. Pulled the gasket off and holy hell had to open the doors on the house because of the smell. I made a make shift gasket out of cardboard and plumbers PTFE and running it again, just to see if it holds. I did find the thick PTFE on amazon and it will be here tomorrow, but so far I dont have any leaks with just the make due seal.

Dancing4dan thanks for the input I am heading to the depot after this water run to swap out those lines, luckly I braze copper every day so should be a problem.

Saltbush Bill I am collecting in 4oz jars but mixing them all the forshots and heads and hearts together after the run is done. So when I said 3rd jar I was into my 3rd full jar, I would think that be into the hearts. I serperated the jars by proof. 1st jar was 150 second jar was 140 3 was 140 - 120 and 20 per jar after that. I did go heavy into the tail just for fun and to see what would happen as far as taste and smell. I ran her down to 20 proof!

Once again THANKS for all the help

[greggn]

Search Amazon for Lamons Expanded Joint Sealant PTFE, 3/8” Wide x 25 feet Long, (1 Spool), White (EJS.1500.37525)

From Amazon's description ...

Adhesive Backed – convenient adhesive strip and peel-off backing allow easy installation on both horizontal and vertical surfaces.

[The Booze Pipe]

Search Amazon for Lamons Expanded Joint Sealant PTFE, 3/8” Wide x 25 feet Long, (1 Spool), White (EJS.1500.37525)

From Amazon's description ...

Adhesive Backed – convenient adhesive strip and peel-off backing allow easy installation on both horizontal and vertical surfaces.

The adhesive comes off. In the other words, the backing has an adhesive that peels away from the ptfe.

[NZChris]

A problem with expanded PTFE is that it has poor memory. It will seal well the first time you use it but may fail to seal for subsequent uses, especially if there are slight flaws in the mating surfaces and you don't manage to match them up perfectly each time.

[Tōtōchtin]

Here's a fair source for a few things.
https://www.coppertubingsales.com/collections/ptfe-tape
Tōtō

[greggn]

The adhesive comes off. In the other words, the backing has an adhesive that peels away from the ptfe.

The adhesive is on the backing not the PTFE ? So, the adhesive is NOT intended to hold the PTFE in place ? That doesn't make sense to me, from a product standpoint, but you're free to use whatever you want. No one's auditing your process.

[The Booze Pipe]

The adhesive comes off. In the other words, the backing has an adhesive that peels away from the ptfe.

The adhesive is on the backing not the PTFE ? So, the adhesive is NOT intended to hold the PTFE in place ? That doesn't make sense to me, from a product standpoint, but you're free to use whatever you want. No one's auditing your process.

Yes that’s correct. I peeled off the backing which has the adhesive, leaving just eptfe. My guess is to keep it clean.

[still_stirrin]

5-0 clock,

I suggest removing the slobber box/thumper from the vapor path. As you try to isolate the cause of the “chemical smell/taste”, simplifying the process will help narrow the possibilities. I don’t know if you’ve put something into the “slobber box/thumper” or not, but omitting that vessel would allow the vapor to go straight from the boiler to the condenser.

There should not be an “acid” smell or taste in the product because almost all of the acids produced during fermentation have higher boiling points than the alcohols, esters, or ketones (which are predominantly congeners of the fores and heads).

But, if you’re distilling your “tap water”, there may be some chloride or fluoride carryover in the steam, which is much hotter than the products from an alcohol distillation.

As I stated in my previous response, I suspect that you don’t know what you’re smelling (or tasting) that you find objectionable. For example, the ketones (acetone) and aldehydes (acetyl-aldehyde) do smell very “sharp” and taste “solventy” and will burn (chemically) in your mouth and throat. The esters have a “fruity/sweet” smell, but are also “hot” on the tongue when tasting. These are all fermentation by-products and may be higher in concentration in fruit ferments as well. This would make it more difficult to make good cuts, simply because you don’t know how to make cuts properly.

Plastics or rubber products, when dissolved by high %ABV (hot) alcohol, or solvents would give you a noticeable taste and smell in the product. I believe you should be able to identify those contaminants, if present.

As a point of reference, when I distill in the kitchen, I notice the acetyl-aldehyde (green apple) smell as the wash heats up, well before it starts to produce. The acetyl-aldehyde has a very low boiling point, so it evaporates early. It is also a strong fruit fly attractant too, so if distilling “in the wild” you may notice those “small assistants” hovering around your still. Oh, and they’re lousy drunks because they don’t swim very well when drunk!

Finally, I suggest making a sugar wash to practice your distilling skills. The fruit wash sounds inviting, but is likely a complication that is beyond your skillset as a beginner. There are several excellent sugar wash recipes in the Tried & True forum which will get you a product and some distiller’s experience.
ss

p.s. - You have a very nice kitchen and a very understanding bride (to let you abuse her kitchen with your hobby). I’m jealous.