Booner's Casual All Corn

[fiery creations]

I'm on my 4th round of this protocol and am one of the folks who seem to be having a harder time at it.

Currently using 20lb corn and 4lb rye malt for a 10G final product. I have been using my 26 gallon electric boiler as a hot liquor tank heating to boiling, pouring over corn and following all other instructions exactly(other than adding my malt at below 160 just before sebstar). I consistently ended up with a 5% abv mash and have failed my final starch tests always still getting a black/blue result even after the night's rest.

My corn comes well ground but I have also ground it down further with no real noticeable impact.

I am working on better insulation of my mash tun to see if that has any impact and will also try to cook the corn for my next batch using a propane. I really wanted to get this steeping method working which you can walk away from rather than gas that really requires my full attention.

Bodihan,

Seems to me that cooking the corn liberates more starch for conversion. I don't think it has an impact on the actual conversion process, so it wouldn't help with the starch test. I'd look to your conversion process with the enzymes to be sure you're using them right. Manc's suggestion on pH is sensible.

One thing I noticed is that you mentioned using Sebstar at 160F, which is typically what people call the High-Temp enzyme used around boiling temperature that breaks apart the starches, but you didn't mention Sebamyl, which is the low temp gluco-amylase enzyme that actually makes the fermentable sugars. Maybe you meant to say Sebamyl or are just using Sebstar as a generic term?

Tried again last night this time using 25 lbs corn and 6 lbs rye for a 10-gallon batch. I added the boiling water to the grains then used gas to bring back up to a full boil for 10 mins. I have a false bottom and kept the agitator going the entire time so didn't get any scorching. After the boil, I had a really thick porage so I don't think there is any doubt that plenty of starches were available. The alpha was added at 180 and definitely did its job thinning everything out. I made sure my PH was below 4.5 and pitched the Gluco at 149 degrees. I had my mash tun well insulated and used my pump to recirculate for 90 mins. The mash held between 145-149 the entire time.

I left overnight and still only pulled about 1.5 SG in the morning.

Like I said its working just not nearly as efficiently as I would have hoped. I'm starting to think that perhaps the enzyms I received have diminished potency due to age or some other factor I'm not aware of.

Did you ever figure out the issue? I'm in the same boat. Even after spending two hours grinding my cracked corn to meal, I'm still only pulling 1.05 after 10 hours post GL. Also still failing the starch test. All temps and pHs were held in range.

[NormandieStill]

For the record (and this is OT so sorry), when you're viewing a thread on the forum there's a search box which allows you to search within that thread. Type either "grind" or "mill" into there and fairly rapidly you'll get comments from folks talking about the efficiency increase they got by grinding finer.

[fiery creations]

Anyone have any tips for me? I’m putting way more time into this than the “casual” recipe.


Grinding my corn to meal. Adjust pH as close to smack dab in the middle of the ranges for each. Letting it sit for 14 hours after GL.


Still at best pulling 1.05 and failing the starch test. I don’t have an overhead mixer but I’m stirring a ton through to make sure it has the best change of conversion. I even doubled the enzymes this time

[Zacher]

"The alpha was added at 180 and definitely did its job thinning everything out. I made sure my PH was below 4.5 and pitched the Gluco at 149 degrees."

Did you use high temp alpha at 180 or regular alpha amylase? Gluco is added at 104, not 149. It was immediately denatured. You need to add alpha amylase at 145 after the high temp alpha at 180 and then gluco at 104.

How did you test the SG?

[fiery creations]

"The alpha was added at 180 and definitely did its job thinning everything out. I made sure my PH was below 4.5 and pitched the Gluco at 149 degrees."

Did you use high temp alpha at 180 or regular alpha amylase? Gluco is added at 104, not 149. It was immediately denatured. You need to add alpha amylase at 145 after the high temp alpha at 180 and then gluco at 104.

How did you test the SG?

Is this a typo in the original recipe?

“Stir until temperature hits 148°.… Check pH and adjust… Add GL…”

I just reread the recipe and I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Am I misread something? I added sebstar HTL at 180. I waited until 148 and added sebamyl GL.

To check the SG, I both use a calculator to temperature adjust, and then actually cooled it to near the calibration of the Hydro and checked again.

[Zacher]

No, my bad. I couldn't get sebamyl so did it the way I wrote. Got great results. Not sure what you are running into. Did you squeeze out the liquid? How did you lauter the mash?

[subbrew]

Anyone have any tips for me? I’m putting way more time into this than the “casual” recipe.


Grinding my corn to meal. Adjust pH as close to smack dab in the middle of the ranges for each. Letting it sit for 14 hours after GL.


Still at best pulling 1.05 and failing the starch test. I don’t have an overhead mixer but I’m stirring a ton through to make sure it has the best change of conversion. I even doubled the enzymes this time

Did you check your specific enzymes temp ranges? This recipe may have had different enzymes so follow the temp ranges for what you are using not the recipe. For example some recipes say to add the glucoamylase at 150F but the bottle I have has a working temp from 90 to 130 and would be denatured at 150.

[fiery creations]

Anyone have any tips for me? I’m putting way more time into this than the “casual” recipe.


Grinding my corn to meal. Adjust pH as close to smack dab in the middle of the ranges for each. Letting it sit for 14 hours after GL.


Still at best pulling 1.05 and failing the starch test. I don’t have an overhead mixer but I’m stirring a ton through to make sure it has the best change of conversion. I even doubled the enzymes this time

Did you check your specific enzymes temp ranges? This recipe may have had different enzymes so follow the temp ranges for what you are using not the recipe. For example some recipes say to add the glucoamylase at 150F but the bottle I have has a working temp from 90 to 130 and would be denatured at 150.

I went with the T n T recipe instructions because I believe I’m using the exact same ones from sebstar.

However, in older post, I did read a quote from the manufacturer saying something Slightly different As far as times and times. Either way from what I’ve read, I shouldn’t have denatured anything.

I haven’t been Sparging. I squeeze the hell out of my bag in a mop Bucket. I know I can get a bit more sugar out, but I didn’t want the gravity to fall any lower.


I just finished another one and it is still feeling the starch test.

[fiery creations]

I’ve never experienced anything like this. After less than two weeks on oak my nuclear aged stuff tastes great, and smells even better. It reminds me of some type of caramelized cream corn thing you’d get at a fair.

[Zacher]

I’ve never experienced anything like this. After less than two weeks on oak my nuclear aged stuff tastes great, and smells even better. It reminds me of some type of caramelized cream corn thing you’d get at a fair.

What was your nuclear aging process?

[fiery creations]

I’ve never experienced anything like this. After less than two weeks on oak my nuclear aged stuff tastes great, and smells even better. It reminds me of some type of caramelized cream corn thing you’d get at a fair.

What was your nuclear aging process?

Microwave, let cool, freezer. Let warm back up, and repeat every day for a couple of days.

[Ufans]

Thanks all. This was my first AG mash and following the directions went great. I fermented on the grain and got the experience of separating later, but all good. Once fermentation was complete I left it for another few days and then racked into 5gal buckets for another week. I never used any clarifiers, just time and filtering out the grains through a mesh bag. So, the wash entered the still cloudy due to the residual yeast suspended. I crossed my fingers and ran the still slow to avoid burning. My setup is a keg still w/ 2" packed column on propane. I ran slow and got a consistent >100 proof yield the entire time until it trailed off late in the tails where the distillate became slightly cloudy. Overall, the run was very successful. The corn flavor is 120%, a bit overkill for me as it will take time to get use to it. I found mixing the final result with a sugar mash gin produced a more rounded flavor and mouth feel.

Some questions and thoughts on my next run.
- Any thoughts on what I described above?
- I plan to use 5gal of this backset in my next mash
- I plan to use the same steps but mix the grain bill with some barley and rye (adding just before the second enzyme)
- Should I consider doing a quicker stripping run and then spirit run, or is one slow run yielding 120 proof adequate (esp to max the flavor) ?

[Bradster68]

Glad to hear it went well. Personally I wouldn't use a packet column for this. And a strip and spirit (usually through a potstill) will be much better. You didn't say if you used the appropriate enzymes. Hope so,it'll make yield much higher.
As for adding rye and barley and maybe some wheat will be a big game changer.
Don't forget time on oak

[Zacher]

Personally, I really like keeping the OG recipe and making an "All Corn". It tastes great white and as posted.

[FL Brewer]

I have been using Booner's no cook method on my last several batches, but have been wondering if the corn was completely gelatinized. So, I did an experiment, used Booner's method on one 50 lb bag of cracked corn, and another 50 lb bag of the same cracked corn cooked in a double boiler for over an hour, basically until I had a creamed corn like consistency, which was my previous method.

Skipping to the punch line, I did not see any significant difference in the amount of alcohol my stripping run yielded, for Booner's method vs. my high confidence fully cooked method. Guess that's why this is a tried and true.....

To give you the details, my method was a little bit different than Booner's but pretty similar. I used 2 lbs of grain per gallon of water. 50 lbs of cracked corn directly out of the bag into a 55 gal food grade poly barrel wrapped in blankets for insulation. I can only boil 10 gallons of water at a time, so 10 gallons of boiling water dumped in and stirted, boil another ten gallons, dump it in and stir, another 5 gallons, dump and stir. Took a good two hours from the first water to the last. I'm just about at sea level, so the temp of the water going into the barrel was pretty close to 212F. Temp settled out to about 185F or so, I added my SebStarHTL enzyme shortly after, and the SebAmyl GL when the temp got down to about 150F. Left it insulated for at least 8 hours, then removed the blankets and pitched yeast when the temp got down to 100F. Used good ole' baker's yeast.

Booners method is much quicker and easier than my high confidence fully cooked method, and since I can't see a difference in extract efficiency, I will continue to use it, just now with high confidence.

[Zacher]

Good to know and thanks for posting. When I run out of Alpha and Gluco I will try the GL. One less step is always nice....