Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

[MarkChap]

Right,
Finally located some DAP, so put down a 46lt wash just now, followed the recipe
Couple of questions if I may
1- Rolled Oats
I am sure I saw somewhere, in one of the forums where this recipe is discussed that I could use some rolled oats for a better mouth feel ??
Do I just add some ?? How Much ??
Do I substitute for some of the bran ??, again how much ??

Cheers
Mark

[Garouda]

I am sure I saw somewhere, in one of the forums where this recipe is discussed, that I could use some rolled oats for a better mouth feel ??

TFFV, Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka is a ... vodka recipe, which by definition is a neutral. Basically you should use a reflux still (VM, CCVM,...) I do not recommend LM (Bokabob's slant plates).
If you aim for some flavour, you'd better follow an all grain recipe, Whisky, Whiskey, Bourbon... then the still can be a pot still or a flute.
As I can source cheap corn, I like to make some Bourbon like stuff, brewing is also more fun than a simple sugar wash.
TFFV is my base material to make gin and liqueurs, I'm using a Ø 3" VM still.
When I make Bourbon, I change my still and use it as pot still for the stripping runs and pot still with a Lyne arm for my spirit runs.
viewtopic.php?p=7773665#p7773665

[Saltbush Bill]

Basically you should use a reflux still (VM, CCVM,...) I do not recommend LM (Bokabob's slant plates).

Would you care to elaborate on that statement Garouda?
Are you implying that a boka will produce an inferior product in comparison to the other still types that you mentioned?
Or is there another reason for it?

[SW_Shiner]

I'm also interested in a reason why you wouldn't recommend an LM still. I've been running a 2" boka for almost 10 years and have never had any issues.

[MarkChap]

Basically you should use a reflux still (VM, CCVM,...)

Yeap, 50mm CCVM

If you aim for some flavour, you'd better follow an all grain recipe, Whisky, Whiskey, Bourbon...

Not after a flavoured spirit, I use Molasses for that,
I was just trying to get my thoughts around the oats thing, I have read a few different peoples mention that they always use some oats in everything for some mouth feel, not so much for flavour

[NZChris]

Basically you should use a reflux still (VM, CCVM,...)

Yeap, 50mm CCVM

If you aim for some flavour, you'd better follow an all grain recipe, Whisky, Whiskey, Bourbon...

Not after a flavoured spirit, I use Molasses for that,
I was just trying to get my thoughts around the oats thing, I have read a few different peoples mention that they always use some oats in everything for some mouth feel, not so much for flavour

Do a TFFV, then a MarkChapFFV, then report your results. Watch out for burn on if you have unconverted starch in your experiment.

[MarkChap]

Right,
Finally located some DAP, so put down a 46lt wash just now, followed the recipe

Whoopsie,
When I say "followed the recipe" it turns out I actually used twice the amount of the Wheat Bran,
I hope I haven't ruined it
Time will tell

[Yummyrum]

Whoopsie,
When I say "followed the recipe" it turns out I actually used twice the amount of the Wheat Bran,
I hope I haven't ruined it
Time will tell

I doubt it in the slightest Mark .

[Garouda]

Basically you should use a reflux still (VM, CCVM,...) I do not recommend LM (Bokabob's slant plates).

Would you care to elaborate on that statement Garouda?
Are you implying that a boka will produce an inferior product in comparison to the other still types that you mentioned?
Or is there another reason for it?

A boka will produce a perfect product, for the one who has time to lose, besides this, the needle valve is not as reliable as a gate valve. I'm not the only one read "the compleat distiller"... I fell in the trap of that stupid fashion and made a Bokabob head, I scrapped it, I posted my attempt on Aussie distiller.. VM is a far better solution.

[Garouda]

I'm also interested in a reason why you wouldn't recommend an LM still. I've been running a 2" boka for almost 10 years and have never had any issues.

Indeed, Bokabob was a star ten years ago and before, and I must admit that I also followed the trend. It's not a problem of issues, the Boka model follows an example of a classic lab distillation apparatus, the point is its effectiveness and the outlet. How long does it take to finish your spirit run? I would say 2" and below remains OK for that kind of approach, but IMHO 2" is the upper limit.
When I saw the Ø3" Boka head I made, I decided to reverse gear, and I got confirmation in the "Compleat Distiller" by Nixon & McCaw. I guess they wrote compleat because there is already a book named "the Complete Distiller" by A. Cooper. I scrapped my Boka head (I recovered the two ferrules I reused to make my gin basket) and made a VM still that fulfils all my expectations and more. At that time sourcing a needle valve wasn't easy, today you have plenty of them on Chinese online shops. Despite the high price I paid for it, I changed my mind, and I'm happy I made that decision.

[Garouda]

Do a TFFV, then a MarkChapFFV, then report your results. Watch out for burn on if you have unconverted starch in your experiment.

Can you pls translate in basic English? Normally, anyone doing this craft a bit seriously will run a simple iodine test.
TFFV is a sugar wash, and a bulletproof recipe.
If you want a neutral vodka (tautology) stick meticulously to this outstanding and clever recipe!
If you want a genever, a whisky, a bourbon or an aquavit, search the forum.

[SW_Shiner]

I'm also interested in a reason why you wouldn't recommend an LM still. I've been running a 2" boka for almost 10 years and have never had any issues.

Indeed, Bokabob was a star ten years ago and before, and I must admit that I also followed the trend. It's not a problem of issues, the Boka model follows an example of a classic lab distillation apparatus, the point is its effectiveness and the outlet. How long does it take to finish your spirit run? I would say 2" and below remains OK for that kind of approach, but IMHO 2" is the upper limit.
When I saw the Ø3" Boka head I made, I decided to reverse gear, and I got confirmation in the "Compleat Distiller" by Nixon & McCaw. I guess they wrote compleat because there is already a book named "the Complete Distiller" by A. Cooper. I scrapped my Boka head (I recovered the two ferrules I reused to make my gin basket) and made a VM still that fulfils all my expectations and more. At that time sourcing a needle valve wasn't easy, today you have plenty of them on Chinese online shops. Despite the high price I paid for it, I changed my mind, and I'm happy I made that decision.

I recently finished making a 3" Boka, i can build many of them for the cost of getting a suitable gate valve here. Plus im quite happy with the ~3L/h of azeo it can pull. i can probably go faster, but then the distillate come out too hot for my preference.

[Garouda]

I can probably go faster, but then the distillate come out too hot for my preference.

Product condenser not well sized, and it's not a matter of preference ...
This topic is about TFFV, maybe you'd like to continue the discussion here:
viewtopic.php?p=7777718#p7777718

[MarkChap]

It was down to 994 after 3 days and 994 after 4 days, so I racked it off to settle and will get another batch going tomorrow, then strip them both and then run through the column

[Yummyrum]

It was down to 994 after 3 days and 994 after 4 days, so I racked it off to settle and will get another batch going tomorrow, then strip them both and then run through the column

Holly crap .. thats fast .
Never got remotely near

[MarkChap]

Holly crap .. thats fast .
Never got remotely near

hahahah, that's because I can't count
994 in 4 days then racked off at 5 days, so it took 4 days to ferment out

[NZChris]

It was down to 994 after 3 days and 994 after 4 days, so I racked it off to settle and will get another batch going tomorrow, then strip them both and then run through the column

Get yourself a bigger fermenter. The footprint of a fermenter three or four times larger isn't much greater than a single fermenter, and the time and effort to put down a bigger ferment isn't much more.
My first fermenter was three times my still volume and is still my most used fermenter over three decades later. One ferment, three strips and a spirit run, done and dusted in a weekend.

[Darsin Award]

I've run FFV a few times... including in a 50 gallon (200 ltr) fermentor sourced from a local brewery who were upgrading,
It stalled... got way to hot I think.
the ambient temps of +30c in my place of abode not the best with big fermentation volumes, especially with a fast ferment.
I just run 30 ltr ferments into my 50 ltr boiler, works for me

[NZChris]

I've run FFV a few times... including in a 50 gallon (200 ltr) fermentor sourced from a local brewery who were upgrading,
It stalled... got way to hot I think.
the ambient temps of +30c in my place of abode not the best with big fermentation volumes, especially with a fast ferment.
I just run 30 ltr ferments into my 50 ltr boiler, works for me

The same controller I use to keep a ferment warm is also controlling a fan in case it gets too hot. If the fan wasn't going to be enough cooling, I would add a pump or solenoid to dribble water over a cloth draped over the fermenter when the fan went. This is not a new idea; I came across it a long time ago.

[Darsin Award]

I've run FFV a few times... including in a 50 gallon (200 ltr) fermentor sourced from a local brewery who were upgrading,
It stalled... got way to hot I think.
the ambient temps of +30c in my place of abode not the best with big fermentation volumes, especially with a fast ferment.
I just run 30 ltr ferments into my 50 ltr boiler, works for me

The same controller I use to keep a ferment warm is also controlling a fan in case it gets too hot. If the fan wasn't going to be enough cooling, I would add a pump or solenoid to dribble water over a cloth draped over the fermenter when the fan went. This is not a new idea; I came across it a long time ago.

Yeah, I thought about rigging some form of cooling, fixing the AC in my stilling room would probably be a good start

[Garouda]

I've run FFV a few times... including in a 50 gallon (200 ltr) fermenter sourced from a local brewery who were upgrading,
It stalled... got way to hot I think.
the ambient temps of +30c in my place of abode not the best with big fermentation volumes, especially with a fast ferment.
I just run 30 ltr ferments into my 50 ltr boiler, works for me

What material ? If it comes from a serious brewery, it should be stainless steel. If it's not stainless steel, ask yourself why they sold it!
I live in Thailand and T° are high too. I have a 98l SS fermenter, and I always pour my sugar diluted in boiling water to sanitize it.
I have two boilers depending on what I want to do 50x50and 40x 40. (98 litres and 50 litres)
Either you sanitize your vessels with boiling water or with star san. I always clean them with star san before using them. If you do not properly clean your equipment, it's going to fail. That's the only reason that can explain a stalled TFFV batch, besides a wrong upscaling up to 200 litres... As I used to write, TFFV is a bulletproof recipe, the best sugar wash recipe IMHO, based on the small theoretical background I have regarding fermentation.

[Darsin Award]

I've run FFV a few times... including in a 50 gallon (200 ltr) fermenter sourced from a local brewery who were upgrading,
It stalled... got way to hot I think.
the ambient temps of +30c in my place of abode not the best with big fermentation volumes, especially with a fast ferment.
I just run 30 ltr ferments into my 50 ltr boiler, works for me

What material ? If it comes from a serious brewery, it should be stainless steel. If it's not stainless steel, ask yourself why they sold it!
I live in Thailand and T° are high too. I have a 98l SS fermenter, and I always pour my sugar diluted in boiling water to sanitize it.
I have two boilers depending on what I want to do 50x50and 40x 40. (98 litres and 50 litres)
Either you sanitize your vessels with boiling water or with star san. I always clean them with star san before using them. If you do not properly clean your equipment, it's going to fail. That's the only reason that can explain a stalled TFFV batch, besides a wrong upscaling up to 200 litres... As I used to write, TFFV is a bulletproof recipe, the best sugar wash recipe IMHO, based on the small theoretical background I have regarding fermentation.

I don't know what they're made of but yeah, I suspect they were sold as the brewery was getting serious and buying good gear. I'd love stainless fermentors, but plastic tubs worked fine for me over the last 10 years and I can afford them...I live in a climate similar to you, and my stillery gets pretty hot, no matter how good a recipe is, even bakers yeast doesn't like getting too hot and a 200ltr fermentor would get a lot hotter than even a 100ltr one, far less surface area to volume. I just stick to my 30 ltr tubs, they always work

[MarkChap]

Stripped my first ffv wash this afternoon. ran down to 10%abv and ended up with about 11.3lt @ 40%abv in the keg.
Set up another batch to ferment and will stripp that next week and hopefully do a spirit run with reflux column on Sunday.

I must say, even though all I have done is run this through a pot still, it certainly has come out very clean, looking forward to the spirit run

[Osse87]

Hey guys, loving this recipe, been doing it a few times. A question: what would the effect be of letting the bran/rye simmer for just 5-10 minutes instead of 30? I'm getting impatient with the bran/rye sometimes and proceed faster than the 30 mins but I don't want to continue doing it if the 30 mins are needed to lock the nutritions up for the yeast or something. Thanks!

[Kareltje]

Hey guys, loving this recipe, been doing it a few times. A question: what would the effect be of letting the bran/rye simmer for just 5-10 minutes instead of 30? I'm getting impatient with the bran/rye sometimes and proceed faster than the 30 mins but I don't want to continue doing it if the 30 mins are needed to lock the nutritions up for the yeast or something. Thanks!

Good question! I always let the bran simmer for only a few minutes and let it cool. Never get the very fast fermenting, though. But I am satisfied with the result after about four weeks.
I will make a comparison: next time I will make one ferment with 30 minutes boiled bran and one with a few minutes.
All the rest the same, of course. See what happens.

But maybe someone has done this comparison already and is willing to share?

[NZChris]

Disclaimer, I've never done TFFV.

Play with Teddy's method to make what you want with it.

When using bran as a nutrient and double distilling it through a simple pot still, I use about a fifth of the bran that Teddy uses, pouring boiling water over it and letting it cool. I'm not wanting the flavor from the bran or the speed from a nutrient supercharged ferment, so I'm happy to wait a few days longer for the ferment to finish and to have less grain flavor to deal with when choosing my heart cut.

My feints are dealt with using my Bokakob.

[Osse87]

Disclaimer, I've never done TFFV.

Play with Teddy's method to make what you want with it.

When using bran as a nutrient and double distilling it through a simple pot still, I use about a fifth of the bran that Teddy uses, pouring boiling water over it and letting it cool. I'm not wanting the flavor from the bran or the speed from a nutrient supercharged ferment, so I'm happy to wait a few days longer for the ferment to finish and to have less grain flavor to deal with when choosing my heart cut.

My feints are dealt with using my Bokakob.

I'm only running my tffv thru my VM column still and want as speedy of a ferment as possible, guess the flavour from the supercharged ferment and bran is stripped away to a large extent as im reaching 96% in one go. What do you do with your product when double distilled in the pot still? What does it taste like from the get-go and do you infuse it with something for taste? What proof do you reach?

I'm collecting heads and tails in separate buckets, I don't have enough to run thru my still again yet but I intend to run them separately to see if either one contain more usable ethanol than the other and see if they taste as good as first run directly from the wash. Do you include both heads and tails in your feints? Do you run feints separately or together with your next ordinary run?

I guess my feints should contain more concentrated heads/tails than yours due to reflux run from the get go, maybe my feints won't be very usable again, I dont know.

[Osse87]

Hey guys, loving this recipe, been doing it a few times. A question: what would the effect be of letting the bran/rye simmer for just 5-10 minutes instead of 30? I'm getting impatient with the bran/rye sometimes and proceed faster than the 30 mins but I don't want to continue doing it if the 30 mins are needed to lock the nutritions up for the yeast or something. Thanks!

Good question! I always let the bran simmer for only a few minutes and let it cool. Never get the very fast fermenting, though. But I am satisfied with the result after about four weeks.
I will make a comparison: next time I will make one ferment with 30 minutes boiled bran and one with a few minutes.
All the rest the same, of course. See what happens.

But maybe someone has done this comparison already and is willing to share?

Cool! Please report your findings. Its easy enough for me to also do the test but I have some other tests in my mind for next batches. I've had some very fast ferments with the recipe some times, I've tried and compared with twice the amount of Epsom salt and I think it was faster to ferment for sure, but I got the impression Epsom salt carry over to the product in a not so pleasant way, might have been something else which was carrying over instead tho. I've also tried crushing the seashells to much smaller particles/dust to hopefully counteract the fast pH drop and think I got good results from that also, will continue with it for sure.

Do you think I need to be careful with the amount of Epsom salt considering it might impact the taste of the destillate? Do you measure the Epsom salts? I just realised I've been using about 3-4x the amount that the recipe calls for. Might need to adjust it down even further.

[Kareltje]

I will report, if I have the findings. I have now three tests: one with only 1/5 of a litre of bran and boiled water (NZChris), one with 1 litre and just a few minutes simmering and one with a litre and 30 minutes simmering. All for 3 kg inverted sugar in 20 L and later 1.5 kg inverted sugar added till 23 litres.

As for Epsom salt: I just use a pinch (the tip of a knife) and I use egg shells, a pinch between finger and thumb. I do feel no need to experiment with those.

It may take some time, but when I have results, I will report them.

[NZChris]

What do you do with your product when double distilled in the pot still? What does it taste like from the get-go and do you infuse it with something for taste? What proof do you reach?

Lightly flavored wheat vodka about 74%. Nobody around here drinks vodka, so it gets used for anything that benefits from a hint of grain, Jenever, some gins, Russian Noble Vodka.

Do you include both heads and tails in your feints? Do you run feints separately or together with your next ordinary run?

Stored and run together. I seldom recycle feints, never if making neutral. The refluxed feints get used for anything that requires a very neutral spirit, plus it is used for diluting multi-shot gins.

I guess my feints should contain more concentrated heads/tails than yours due to reflux run from the get go, maybe my feints won't be very usable again, I dont know.

I don't put wash in the boiler for refluxing, only feints or low wines. Heads off my Bokakob go into the fuel jar, the heat goes off as soon as tails arrive and the small amount of tails collected gets tossed under the lemon tree.