The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

[grimlock]

For 19 litres using a huge Bain Marie* insert with a diameter of 30cm, you are going to get 804.2cm2 surface area so surface area to volume ratio of 42.33cm2/l

This looks to be lower that other barrels when looking back at Badmotivators post: viewtopic.php?t=68297

download/file.php?id=63161&mode=view

* I could not find dimensions on a 19L Badmo so have used Bain Marie insert dimensions instead from a catering suppliers website.

[ChristopherC]

been searching all over with no luck. Does anyone have the dimensions on the new 19 liter Badmo barrels? How does surface area to volume compare to the legacy barrels? I'm guessing lower but would like to see the math...

For 19 litres using a huge Bain Marie* insert with a diameter of 30cm, you are going to get 804.2cm2 surface area so surface area to volume ratio of 42.33cm2/l

This looks to be lower that other barrels when looking back at Badmotivators post: viewtopic.php?t=68297

download/file.php?id=63161&mode=view

* I could not find dimensions on a 19L Badmo so have used Bain Marie insert dimensions instead from a catering suppliers website.

Your guess of 30cm was pretty close. The head of the barrel is actually 12 inches.

• Head Surface Area: 113.1 in²

• Tested Volume: 4.85 gallons

• Measured SA/V Ratio: 23.3 in²/gal

For comparison:

• The surface area to volume ratio (SA/V) of the 1.8-gallon barrel is 27.8 in²/gal.

• The SA/V of an all-wood 5-gallon barrel is ~125.5 in²/gal.

This shows that the new 19-liter barrels has a similar SA/V ratio compared to the legacy barrels. If you need more details or have any other questions, feel free to ask!

[dirtybird33]

Christopher,

Are you willing to share the source of your large Bain Marie inserts? I have browsed around a little and haven't found anything that seems close to what you are using.

[ChristopherC]

Christopher,

Are you willing to share the source of your large Bain Marie inserts? I have browsed around a little and haven't found anything that seems close to what you are using.

These containers are custom-made for me, so unfortunately, I can't point you to a direct source. I wish I could be more helpful with finding an alternative.

[Bkvance]

This was a cool approach, as a newbie, all I can say is I like it.

[Tōtōchtin]

Christopher,

Are you willing to share the source of your large Bain Marie inserts? I have browsed around a little and haven't found anything that seems close to what you are using.

Here in Mexico the ice cream industry uses them. A 20 and 30 liter was about 20 bucks U.S.
Tōtō

[dirtybird33]

Christopher,

Are you willing to share the source of your large Bain Marie inserts?

These containers are custom-made for me, so unfortunately, I can't point you to a direct source. I wish I could be more helpful with finding an alternative.

Thanks for getting back to me.

[MrMedusaMan]

I am in Melbourne Australia and seeking advice on sourcing American White Oak. Anyone here got any suppliers? Would your run of the mill Kiln dried 33mm AWO do the job although it is not quarter sawn? Anyone looking for cheap second hand Bain Maries, there are some on Marketplace. Only problem is the guy is very poor in communications.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 351602373/

[Beefer]

Ive sourced yard aged oak, both American and French from a local barrel maker in South Australia - then I picked up a few ex bourbon barrel heads from the same place for making the next few batches of barrels.

[MrMedusaMan]

Thanks for the info. Postage is the killer. How many inserts did you get out of each barrel end?

[Beefer]

I measured up for a comfortable 3 inserts per barrel head with enough left over to keep me in oak dominos for years to come. The plan is to make more badmo clones than I currently need, and load up the spares with sherry/port/muscat to be used as finishing barrels years from now.

[Bkvance]

Well I have a wonder wife, partner in crime and soulmate for sure. For my Birthday yesterday, she ordered me a Badmotivator Barrel and it will be here Saturday, I can’t wait to fill it with something interesting.

[Yummyrum]

Well I have a wonder wife, partner in crime and soulmate for sure. For my Birthday yesterday, she ordered me a Badmotivator Barrel and it will be here Saturday, I can’t wait to fill it with something interesting.

Sounds like you gotta keepa .

This hobby has a habit of men spending too much time in the shed ……. Don’t loose the distance .

Keep the balance :

[subbrew]

My advise is to order or make extras. I originally though, 12 will be good. I make enough to fill 3 or 4 badmo clones a year. So 12 will get me three years of aging. But now that I am coming up on three years I am thinking, hum, what if I leave a barrel or two to go 5 or 6 years. Just ordered a dozen more bain maries. Damn this hobby

[higgins]

I'm up to 16 now and have 2 more bain maries. I've filled 4 this year and will probably do 2 more before Jan.

[MrMedusaMan]

I am about to embark on making five 10 litre babies. I have ordered the Yard aged American Oak from AP John. Would like to age Jack Daniels, single malt whisky, Gin and Slivovitz. Any recommendations on toasting or charring the Oak would be appreciated.

[subbrew]

I am about to embark on making five 10 litre babies. I have ordered the Yard aged American Oak from AP John. Would like to age Jack Daniels, single malt whisky, Gin and Slivovitz. Any recommendations on toasting or charring the Oak would be appreciated.

When you say you are aging Jack Daniels and Single Malt whisky are talking about purchasing commercial product and putting it back in a barrel for additional aging? Since they are already aged I think you would risk over oaking them.

If you mean aging new whisky in the style of Jack or a single malt then it comes to personal preference. I have only worked with bourbon style whiskey. But I like a medium toast (in the oven at 325 F for 50 minutes) and then char the surface with a gas torch until just hitting alligator skin, so medium char. The wood gets glowing red and you can start to see cracks open up on the surface from burning.

For a single malt I would think you would do less charring as those I have had are not as amber as a bourbon.

The oaked Gin is an interesting idea. I would be interested to see how the botanicals hold up to aging on wood.

[Saltbush Bill]

I have ordered the Yard aged American Oak from AP John.

A.P. John have a reputation as one of the best cooperages in Au.
They export barrels to many countries, I'm sure the oak you get will be a quality product.
I've used thier oak adjuncts , and they were excellent, giving great flavour.

[Beefer]

+1 to Bill on AP - that's where all my oak has come from. I'd check the original badmo how to guide for the toasting methods, I use an electric hotplate under a heavy pan. Lets me get the temp I want and only toast the inward facing side. All your offcuts can be toasted in the oven and torched for use in glass though.
Ive oaked gin in glass, not that impressive as a sipper to me, but adds something special to any negronis you make with it.

[MrMedusaMan]

subbrew, Saltbush Bill and Beefer, thanks for your advice. The Oak has arrived and looks real good. The journey begins....

[IPA BREWER]

Share your experience of aging whisky (all grain) how many years have you tried?

Experience of aging on seasoned virgin oak vs used bourbon ?
Cheers

[rug]

My fear is without a croze, temp / pressure changes will eventually cause the head to pop out.

Good point. When I do a heated one I might contrive some kind of croze. If I'm simulating the tropics (~100F) there really won't be much pressure, but it would be worth doing some safety testing with water first. The barrel head can't go in, so I just need to prevent it from popping out. Three stainless steel nails through the side and into the wood should fix the head in place.

I am 99.9% sure the top plug/ bung or whatevere it is called will pop out long before. Reason: The pressure beween the stainless steel and oak is huge because of the swelling of the oak = huge friction.

[subbrew]

I am 99.9% sure the top plug/ bung or whatevere it is called will pop out long before. Reason: The pressure beween the stainless steel and oak is huge because of the swelling of the oak = huge friction.

Put the nails in. The sides of bain marie are smooth and the head will push. I lost a batch of honey bear bourbon when a little sunlight hit the barrel, warmed it and pushed the head.
ADDED: this was a badmo clone I made, not anything from Chris.

[GABrew]

I'd just like to chime in that I had such a great experience working with Ben last year ordering a few barrels. He helped me with an order and made some adjustments on the fly. Recently there was some stuff to work through with an order and I had an equally great experience working with Chris. Both super standup guys who I have appreciated working with.

[Homebrewer11777]

Three more arrived today I've got a couple experiments in mind.

[higgins]

...
I am now conflicted on the sealing / leak check. I think I should have enough spirit to fill the two bain marie inserts I have, this feels like a chance to run one from an filled soak,seal leak test and one from the outside ... and because, well its only jerking about if you do not write it down, at this point its Science ! I shall have to track and document the experiment now rather than just my overall build process.
...

Any results to report, grimlock?

On my last badmo clone fill (Single Malt) I went ahead and filled it with water for a leak test. The head was made from used bourbon barrel staves, so not much danger of stripping 'oak character'. But for a bourbon or rye I think I'll try the external swelling approach. I've got a bourbon spirit run planned for the next few weeks, so will make another badmo clone for it.

[grimlock]

...
I am now conflicted on the sealing / leak check. I think I should have enough spirit to fill the two bain marie inserts I have, this feels like a chance to run one from an filled soak,seal leak test and one from the outside ... and because, well its only jerking about if you do not write it down, at this point its Science ! I shall have to track and document the experiment now rather than just my overall build process.
...

Any results to report, grimlock?

On my last badmo clone fill (Single Malt) I went ahead and filled it with water for a leak test. The head was made from used bourbon barrel staves, so not much danger of stripping 'oak character'. But for a bourbon or rye I think I'll try the external swelling approach. I've got a bourbon spirit run planned for the next few weeks, so will make another badmo clone for it.

I have managed to machine out the barrel heads, the first one using a small router table, the second by hand and eye (as the router table option I decided was just dangerous) and then Christmas happened so not there yet. I still have that delicious spirit waiting for me. It does seem that this needs more time than I have had "free" outside of work, life, family etc. My teenage son has also taken the position that if he is going to help me brew he would like a share in the product just over the line of 12 to 13, he can wait a while on that one.

[6 Row Joe]

I just ordered a French Oak barrel. That should be fun.

[andystanton74]

Wasnt sure if this was the right area to post this but thought i would start here. I have been making barrels for a while now and have had pretty good success. I have always had a little trouble placing the dowels perfectly to get the boards to line up with no step off which can make cutting the round more difficult. Most of the doweling jigs out there assume a square rectangle of equal thickness. When making these barrels the toasted side is warped and so makes one face not flat which can make using a doweling jig difficult. I got a 3d printer recently and designed a doweling jig specifically for making these barrels. You will still need 3 square edges and a square crosscut edge for the jig to work properly but you don't need a shaper or router table to make a tongue and groove joint. The dimensional accuracy is quite good. I designed it specifically using the staves sold by badmotivator legacy barrels. I also make a template to assist in laying out where you will cut the barrel head in the square and then once its cut you can use it to find the center line for your spigot and bung. Was curious to see what people thought about this idea and if you think people would be willing to pay money for it. Thanks for the feedback.