Looking for anyone who's used the Thunder Group bain marie (Sold by Kitchway in the UK, but US made IIUC)

[NormandieStill]

So it's pretty much all in the title (I needed to catch the attention of the right people). I know that at least one user of this form has built badmo clones using the Thunder Group bain marie inserts, but the user (icrazy) is not active here since early 2023.

I'm looking to see if anyone else has used them, and if there are any issues that have arisen. I'll be in the UK for Xmas, so I can get a delivery sent to my folks and avoid the cost and hassle of a cross-channel order.

[higgins]

Normandie, I have made 5 badmos using the Thunder group SLBM006 8 1/4 qt, 4 from TG SLBM 004 4 1/4 qt, and 4 from the TG SLBM005 6 qt bain-maries.

I've had one of the 6 qt split during the soaking/sealing process, but all others are fine. I would not hesitate to use them again.

[NormandieStill]

Thanks for that. Time to order a batch and get making barrels.

[Bottles]

Be carful when installing the heads. My first was to tight and burst the side of the 8 litre pot when filling with water. My second attemp I thought was looser. Head went in about 6mm before needing to be pushed in. But found the barrel had split after filling with cornflake whiskey. Thankfully it was at the top so didn't loose to much. Maybe a 100ml? I've dripped bees wax onto the Crack which is about an inch long. At least it's still holding at the edge.
I would love to find a stronger Bain Marie as £20+ each adds up. So far I'm having better luck turning used asparagus steamers into small barrels. These hold about 3ltrs.
I see christopher at badmo is pinning his heads on. Not sure I'd trust a kitchway with that.
Sourcing good oak is difficult. I got a box from badmo a while ago, slowly working my way through these. I've had some green oak from uk weathering for a couple of years. First toast and sitting on whiskey doesn't taste great so far (2month) a bit astringent. Hopefully it will age out.
Andrew

[MooseMan]

So far I'm having better luck turning used asparagus steamers into small barrels. These hold about 3ltrs.
Andrew

Andrew genuine question, what advantage do you see in using these, (Or realistically any small, suitable vessel you can get in the UK. ) over std glass Demijohn's that hold approx 4l to the shoulders, with oak staves in?

Moose

Edit: Sorry to hijack your topic a bit NS.

[NormandieStill]

So far I'm having better luck turning used asparagus steamers into small barrels. These hold about 3ltrs.
Andrew

Andrew genuine question, what advantage do you see in using these, (Or realistically any small, suitable vessel you can get in the UK. ) over std glass Demijohn's that hold approx 4l to the shoulders, with oak staves in?

Moose

Edit: Sorry to hijack your topic a bit NS.

No problems with the hijack. There are two vaunted advantages of "barrel" ageing using Badmo-style tins. The first is that the standard Badmo barrel actually has reduced oak contact and (and I feel this is significant) zero end-grain. The second is that the oak is micro-porous and so allows for controlled evaporation (heads reduction) and oxygenation (as per a real barrel). The first of these you can simulate by sealing up the end-grain with wax and just using less wood. The second is harder to mimic.

All my ageing to date has been in swing-top glass jars holding 1 to 5 litres. I base my oak quantities on surface area, aiming to match, or be under that of a "standard" barrel (around 100cm² per litre). In some cases I've sealed the end-grain using beeswax, but I've not done a side-by-side with the same spirit to compare. When I finally get the time to scale up some recipes that's a test that I want to do.

Be carful when installing the heads. My first was to tight and burst the side of the 8 litre pot when filling with water. My second attemp I thought was looser. Head went in about 6mm before needing to be pushed in. But found the barrel had split after filling with cornflake whiskey. Thankfully it was at the top so didn't loose to much. Maybe a 100ml? I've dripped bees wax onto the Crack which is about an inch long. At least it's still holding at the edge.
I would love to find a stronger Bain Marie as £20+ each adds up. So far I'm having better luck turning used asparagus steamers into small barrels. These hold about 3ltrs.

This had been my plan but Ikea stopped selling theirs and the others I've found are even pricier than the Thunder Group inserts.

I see christopher at badmo is pinning his heads on. Not sure I'd trust a kitchway with that.
Sourcing good oak is difficult. I got a box from badmo a while ago, slowly working my way through these. I've had some green oak from uk weathering for a couple of years. First toast and sitting on whiskey doesn't taste great so far (2month) a bit astringent. Hopefully it will age out.
Andrew

I was planning on using the smaller ones (3.31 litre). I'm still toying with the idea of getting flanges made and bolting the heads on from the outside, but I'm not sure the wood will hold together well. I need to do some experiments with metal edge banding around a set of jointed staves to see what happens.

[Bottles]

Not sure? I was looking at badmo barrels as a way of long term aging. With little knowledge it was a way of practicing making badmoesc barrels. From what I read killer jars need to be aired regularly. My thoughts the wood did the work. Leave and try and forget as long as possible. Only other advantage is I can be clumsy and have low risk of breaking things moving stuff around.
So far ive only partially filled a 8lt badmo-ish barrel. Tried to do a single malt.lost a lot of abv in storing low wines in corny keg. Didn't measure when it went in at end. But the run went from 70abv to 10 abv. Only got 20% into spirit run. Was aiming for 8lts ended up with 1.8 lite at 80abv.
Andrew

[Bottles]

The asparagus barrels have been second hand about £5 each. For flanges ive thought of having a wire under the flare on the Bain Marie with a securing wire across the face to hold it in. Or possibly a second if you think the head is moving.
Ive started looking at other forms of steel pans etc to see if the are more robust versions available cheaply or at car boots.
But I'm still fighting what I want and the reality of what I can produce? Time is a killer for me.
Andrew

[higgins]

...
Andrew genuine question, what advantage do you see in using these, (Or realistically any small, suitable vessel you can get in the UK. ) over std glass Demijohn's that hold approx 4l to the shoulders, with oak staves in?
...

Hey MooseMan,

Here is what Ben had to say about why he developed these barrels. It is from the Badmotivator website under "Our Story". It's all about the interaction between the whiskey, the barrel, and air:

...
Ben’s story, as told in his own words:

In 2015 I was looking for the best way to age and mature small amounts of rough and raw young white spirits. The techniques commonly used by home distillers, such as oak spirals, sticks, cubes, chips, and small novelty barrels, seemed to lack functionally important elements of proper long-term aging. Without access to small amounts of oxygen over a long period, extracting oak that may or may not have been weathered properly, and subjected to perhaps more oak contact than is appropriate, spirits did not mature in the way that I wanted. They gained color and oak flavor (with perhaps too much tannin) but lost none of their brash youth. We know what works though: long residence in large oak barrels.

What if you could take a cylindrical plug out of a large oak barrel, wood and spirit together, and wrap that plug in something inert like stainless steel? Wouldn’t the spirit mature properly in such a cylinder? This idea was the genesis.
...

I've got some bourbon that has been in a badmo for 2 1/2 years and it is much better than anything I ever aged in glass with sticks, even though I often opened up the jars and allowed them to aerate for a while. Almost everything I've made since July '22 has been put into badmo barrels ... I currently have 17 of them, 16 homemade (if I didn't make them myself I could not afford more than a few).

[MooseMan]

Thanks for the answers and all the info gents.

I was aiming the question more at the vessel size really, if I was going to go down the badmo clone route I think I'd be looking at a bigger volume to make it worthwhile.

For you guys looking for bigger and stronger alternatives to bain Marie pots, would the below be of interest?

Edit: Only way I could get the link to work, sorry.

SPARES2GO - low cost premium quality spare parts and consumables for household electrical appliances. SPARES2GO is a long established spare part supplier based in the North West with over 50 years experience in sourcing the best products and lowest prices on all domestic and commercial appliance spare parts. Should you wish to maintain or repair a fault with your oven / cooker, fridge freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer, microwave, dishwasher or vacuum cleaner - our store includes full coverage of all main appliance brands such as Hotpoint, Indesit, Bosch, Creda, Dyson, Numatic Henry, Hoover, AEG, LG, Samsung, Whirlpool and more. We will not only provide the replacement spare such as a new fan oven element, door seal, drive belt, filter, dishwasher basket, drain hose, vacuum bags, new tool kit - whenever possible we will offer you the choice of several products plus the correct information to ensure the exact fit for your appliance. https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/page/0B ... rms=Bucket

[Bottles]

Not sure really how well those would work? The angled edges may be an issue, maybe not or just needs a clamp.
How much have you distilled? As I'm starting and get surprised on the time needed to produce reasonable amounts using my 45 litre boiler. Which gets hard fitting around work and home.
Your miles may vary. As well as eyes I'm keeping off seeing what I'm up to.
Andrew

[NormandieStill]

I've looked at other solutions in the past. Got quite interested in the wine coolers that they stick next to your table in fancier restaurants, but they tend to be chromed or galvanised steel. Those buckets look good, but I bet the handle runs through the side so that'll be two holes that need patching unless you can get a decent seal with an inserted lid.

But mostly, while I love the idea, I'm just nowhere near filling a 12L "barrel"! I've got an 8L (I think) glass drinks dispenser which has had all the plastics teflon wrapped and will be becoming an "infinity bottle" in the future. And I'm not feeling optimistic about how many years will pass before I managed to get it even half full. Between work and a shed full of stuff that needs to find new homes, I've not manage to run the still in about 4 months.

[Bottles]

This is another reason why I've used odd asparagus steamers. Just make sure the handles aren't riveted. Holds about 2 litre, which is what I can get from a 30ish litre wash with two runs.
I still aspire to fill my two spare 8litre barrels. But it won't be this year:(
I have been looking again at the kitchway site and thre 3 litre Bain Marie for about £10. As a small step to filling barrels, having a variety of washes to see what influences I like or can control. Like my beer making, I'm moreinterested in 20 litre. Brew length then 40lt. As each keg takes a while to finish and I like some variety in life.
Andrew