oakstills bain-marie

[Yummyrum]

This topic may also be helpful for those who use an Ammeter and want to know the power .

Download the Excel file . Enter the Power of your element and its rated voltage .

Then put in the reading off the Ammeter and it works out the power.

Note : it doesn’t work on a phone .
viewtopic.php?p=7786460#p7786460

[The Booze Pipe]

Good to get some feedback on the new setup Booze Pipes .

Regarding the controller . Oakstills call it a variable Amps controller but it uses a standard SSVR phase controller just like 95% of all controllers use . It works just like your old one did. They just call it a different name and because you have an Ammeter to watch , you think it is adjusting the Amps .

It is effectively adjusting the amount of time per half mains cycle that your element gets power .
It is not controlling the Amps or the Voltage for that matter , however the “Average” voltage that is applied to your element will determine the average current that it pulls .

Regarding 0-10
Well they could put anything on it A-Z , 0-2000watts , 0-5500w they could even put 0-240volts .
All it means is it controls from 0% -100% power .

It does look like a titchy pot so maybe it is touchy to adjust . You could replace it with a standard 2watt type and you could put a label under the knob that says 0- what ever you like .

As for the drifting . That could be the Pot , but it is also likely that it is your Mains voltage varying in your street . Hell mine does something shocking . My 240v supply can ho from 225-245 during the day . This will directly effect the displayed current .

Super helpful Yummy! I apologize for my electrical ignorance, but I'm follow your information. I still don't understand why the controller shows the amperage changing, and the voltage staying constant (I had them add a voltmeter). Can I change that inside the controller?

If I change out the potetiometers to a more quality part would that be considered less sensitive?

I did forget to add, a very cold morning ago, I turned on both elements and one was reading 80 amps! I fussed with it a bit and eventually it fell in line at 26 amps.

[The Booze Pipe]

I have a similar unit from Oak stills.
The pots are all but useless, adjusting output is pretty much guess work.
Mine maxes out at a combined 24A @ around 240v
I dont have a voltmeter on mine yet so I just work off how many amps total for a guide to how much power I'm applying.

I supposedly got two 5500w elements, that pull 26 amps. But I had them add a voltmeter!

[Oldvine Zin]

I did forget to add, a very cold morning ago, I turned on both elements and one was reading 80 amps! I fussed with it a bit and eventually it fell in line at 26 amps.

80 amps on a 60 amp service? To me it looks like your ammeter is giving false readings.

Be safe
OVZ

[Yummyrum]

Booze pipes , I recon they wired the voltmeter across the input , thats why it doesn’t change much . If you wire them across the output ( element) , they tend to burn out rather quickly especially if you run at under half power .
You can rewire it to the output , then it will read what teh elements getting ,but , expect it to die. A few members here have successfully hacked meters to run off the input ( and survive) but measure the output . stevebroady and rusty o’l bucket come to mind .
viewtopic.php?p=7800494#p7800494

But you would need one meter per element .

[Yummyrum]

As for the Pot replacement , if it is a larger (physically) pot it will likely have a more smooth even control . Not sure how you would define less sensitive ?? But maybe less touchy to adjust .

[The Booze Pipe]

As for the Pot replacement , if it is a larger (physically) pot it will likely have a more smooth even control . Not sure how you would define less sensitive ?? But maybe less touchy to adjust .

I'm trying to define "sensitive". Less touchy might be it. As it is, if I turn the dial it'll go from 26A to 0 in a quarter turn.

[Yummyrum]

Ahhhhh
So nothing happens when you turn it up then it all happens in the last quarter?
That sounds like the pot value is wrong .

If you have a multimeter , you can turn the pot to where if just reads 0amps . Then disconnect the wires to the pot and measure the resistance with a multimeter. Then see if you can get a Pot closer to the value . Sometimes that may be hard to do as the range of Pots available is not large .
You can place resistors in parallel with the pot to lower its minimum resistance .

It would be interesting to hear from you what value you measure and also the value of the Pot when you turn it fully anticlock-wise

[Oldvine Zin]

Or you could try two potentiometers in series to give you better control ie fine and coarse, I used a 47k and a 470k with good results

Stay safe
OVZ

[The Booze Pipe]

Ahhhhh
So nothing happens when you turn it up then it all happens in the last quarter?
That sounds like the pot value is wrong .

Yes that is correct, one of them is worse than the other.

If you have a multimeter , you can turn the pot to where if just reads 0amps . Then disconnect the wires to the pot and measure the resistance with a multimeter. Then see if you can get a Pot closer to the value . Sometimes that may be hard to do as the range of Pots available is not large . If I'm following correctly, you mean to replace the current ones?
You can place resistors in parallel with the pot to lower its minimum resistance .

It would be interesting to hear from you what value you measure and also the value of the Pot when you turn it fully anticlock-wise

You can see how poor my electrical skills are when I don't own a multimeter I'll see if I can get my electrician friend to stop by. It would be aweosme to fix this!

[shadylane]

I'm trying to define "sensitive". Less touchy might be it. As it is, if I turn the dial it'll go from 26A to 0 in a quarter turn.

"26A to 0 in a quarter turn"

Is the output at 26a with the pot turned fully to the left?

Here's a drawing that might help you wrap your head around the workings of a pot and which terminals to use.
If the pot works backwards, leave the wire on the wiper and move the other wire to the other outside terminal.
The SSVR controller power is inverse to the resistance of the pot.

[The Booze Pipe]

I'm trying to define "sensitive". Less touchy might be it. As it is, if I turn the dial it'll go from 26A to 0 in a quarter turn.

"26A to 0 in a quarter turn"

Is the output at 26a with the pot turned fully to the left?

Here's a drawing that might help you wrap your head around the workings of a pot and which terminals to use.
If the pot works backwards, leave the wire on the wiper and move the other wire to the other outside terminal.

turned left = 0. As I turn the knob to the right its nothing, nothing, then the last quarter turn or so its just about all of it. Of course there are two pot's for the two elements, one is different from the other, as it will turn up the amps sooner, maybe halfway or so through.

[shadylane]

turned left = 0. As I turn the knob to the right its nothing, nothing, then the last quarter turn or so its just about all of it.

Nothing happens for the first 3/4 turn and then at the last quarter turn the power adjustable?

[The Booze Pipe]

basically, yes. And when I try to adjust lets say 18A down to 12A, a tiny movement in the pot and the amperage swings farther than needed/intended. Like 18 to 6. So then I barely move it back to the right and it swings from 6 to 23. I hope I'm making sense.

[shadylane]

The good news, the pot is wired correctly.
The bad news, get another a pot with an ohm value less than one half of what you have.
Another possible problem is the pot being used is meant for audio use. The resistance doesn't change linearly.
Instead it's designed to change resistance on a logarithmic scale and biased to compensate for the how shitty the human ear is at sensing changes in audio volume. In other words the knob turned to 5 on a scale of 1 - 10 isn't 1/2 of the pots resistance range.

Long story short, Pots come in two flavors and you might have the wrong type.

[The Booze Pipe]

I think next time I would have Auber build a controller. You know it'll have quality parts and there is no language barrier!
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... ts_id=1077

[The Booze Pipe]

The good news, the pot is wired correctly.
The bad news, get another a pot with an ohm value less than one half of what you have.
Another possible problem is the pot being used is meant for audio use. The resistance doesn't change linearly.
Instead it's designed to change resistance on a logarithmic scale and biased to compensate for the how shitty the human ear is at sensing changes in audio volume. In other words the knob turned to 5 on a scale of 1 - 10 isn't 1/2 of the pots resistance range.

Long story short, Pots come in two flavors and you might have the wrong type.

I'll get the resistance measured and see about getting those potentiameters replaced! Would I be looking at a Linear potentiometer, or Precision potentiometers? Or does it really depend on the ohms measurement I get?

I'm surprised to see that Auber does not sell these...

[shadylane]

Linear is whats needed, to find the right value to match the SSVR use this trick.
If you use a pot with too low of a ohm value the power wont go to zero.

[shadylane]

Here's a short video to check to see if a pot is log or linear.

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE

[The Booze Pipe]

Thanks Shady I’ll work on it

[Yummyrum]

Good pickup there Shady about it possibly being a Logarithmic Pot . That would explain a lot . But heck , surely Oakstills know better .

Incidentally , the Linear Pots are B series so they can be labeled B500K or B470K whereas the Log Pots are A series . A500K or A470K .

Unfortunately Manufacturing tolerances of Pots is pretty wide , so a 500K pot could be anywhere from 400-600k , which is probably why the two pots you have on your two elements are acting differently .

Also 5500w is a big element . When I turn my 6000w on , the voltage in my shed drops by about 15v or so .
So if you turn them both on , and they are running at high power , one will interact with the other. IE , if you turn one element up , the current will appear to drop on the other .

[shadylane]

Unfortunately Manufacturing tolerances of Pots is pretty wide , so a 500K pot could be anywhere from 400-600k , which is probably why the two pots you have on your two elements are acting differently .

Plus or minus 20% is common on pots and I suspect the SSVR has a wide tolerance also.
Here's an idea that uses 2 pots, 1 for controlling and the other for calibration.
The pots are wired in parallel, for initial calibration turn the panel mounted pot fully to the left.
Then slowly decrease the resistance of the inside pot until any farther turning would make the SSVR start to conduct.
Now the panel mounted pot will have a full range of adjustment starting at zero.

If the ssvr wants 250k or less then two 500k pots in parallel should do the job.

[The Booze Pipe]

Linear is whats needed, to find the right value to match the SSVR use this trick.
If you use a pot with too low of a ohm value the power wont go to zero.

Okay ran this test on one of the pots. Found a resistance of 198.6 - 205.6 (just two different measurements). So I just need a potentiometer rated for 100 ohms?

[shadylane]

Okay ran this test on one of the pots. Found a resistance of 198.6 - 205.6 (just two different measurements). So I just need a potentiometer rated for 100 ohms?

Was that 100 ohms or 100 kilo ohms?
I'm assuming 100K

[The Booze Pipe]

Okay ran this test on one of the pots. Found a resistance of 198.6 - 205.6 (just two different measurements). So I just need a potentiometer rated for 100 ohms?

Was that 100 ohms or 100 kilo ohms?
I'm assuming 100K

Here's the reading. I'm guessing that's 211K ohms?

[shadylane]

Here's the reading. I'm guessing that's 211K ohms?

Your reading it right.
When did you do the 221k measurement?
Was it with the knob on zero (highest resistance)? Same as measuring between the 2 outer terminals.
Or was it with the pot adjusted to the point that the SSVR just stated to conduct?

Side note.
A potentiometer is a three-terminal resistor with a sliding or rotating contact that forms an adjustable voltage divider.
We are only using 2 of the terminals for a variable resistor.

[The Booze Pipe]

Here's the reading. I'm guessing that's 211K ohms?

Your reading it right.
When did you do the 221k measurement?
Was it with the knob on zero (highest resistance)? Same as measuring between the 2 outer terminals.
Or was it with the pot adjusted to the point that the SSVR just stated to conduct?

Side note.
A potentiometer is a three-terminal resistor with a sliding or rotating contact that forms an adjustable voltage divider.
We are only using 2 of the terminals for a variable resistor.

I turned the knob to the right untill the ammeter started reading power, then backed it off until it read near zero, .3 amps or so.

[shadylane]

I turned the knob to the right untill the ammeter started reading power, then backed it off until it read near zero, .3 amps or so.

Got it.
You need to find a pot that's slightly larger than 221k so the power is zero when the knob is turned fully to the left.
If I remember correctly 250k +/- 20% is the next higher ohms commonly available.
Due to the nature of a SSVR it will conduct around .3 amps even when there's nothing connected to pins 3 and 4.
It's using this current and voltage drop across pins 1 and 2 for internal power.

[Tammuz]

Thank you for your help fellas. It's an upgrade I'll make in the future! I'm sure Oak Stills were keeping the cost down. It could be an oversight, but I bet they had a reasoning for how they built it.
I just got my 60 amp service installed with some 6 gauge wire to feed the controller! I'm short a plug (to the element) but just about ready to crank it up (Marty Mcfly blowing up the guitar & amp)

I was in conversation with Peter today. He's not familiar with your problem. I told him I would ask you to contact him. If the shipping time isn't a problem I'm sure you two can fix this.

[The Booze Pipe]

Thank you for your help fellas. It's an upgrade I'll make in the future! I'm sure Oak Stills were keeping the cost down. It could be an oversight, but I bet they had a reasoning for how they built it.
I just got my 60 amp service installed with some 6 gauge wire to feed the controller! I'm short a plug (to the element) but just about ready to crank it up (Marty Mcfly blowing up the guitar & amp)

I was in conversation with Peter today. He's not familiar with your problem. I told him I would ask you to contact him. If the shipping time isn't a problem I'm sure you two can fix this.

Thanks, I reached out him.