My sugar wash is fermenting so very slow - Question

[Turbo6ta]

2 days ago I started fermenting a sugar wash which will be used for gin.

This wash is a small 4 gallon batch ... 4 gallons of bottled water, 8 lb of sugar (2 lb sugar per gal of water), 1 packet of EC-1118 yeast and teaspoon of Fermaid K nutrients.

The water was heated to about 130°F. Then the sugar was added and stirred until the sugar melted. Then the wash was cooled to room temp. The yeast was added to 1/4 cup 90°F water and allowed to rehydrate for 10 minutes and then added to the room temp sugar wash along with the Fermaid K.

This wash was transfered into a carboy and an airlock installed with no gas leakage anywhere within the carboy.

After 2 days I am only getting about 1 bubble every 30 seconds ... This worried me because when I used brew my own beer, the airlock would be bubbling constantly after about a day.

Do you think I have a problem here ??

[bilgriss]

Was the bottled water aerated?
What was the gravity when the yeast was pitched?
How much yeast, and are you sure it is healthy?
What is the pH?
Does it taste sour?

2lb of grain per gallon is a typical mash, but 2 lb or sugar per gallon is a lot, if I'm thinking correctly. Like a 1.10 SG. This chart:
https://www.beer-wine.com/adjusting-specific-gravity

If the gravity is high and oxygen low and pitch rate low, I'd think the yeast would have a hard time. Furthermore, I don't think Fermaid K at that rate has all the nutrients you need for plain sugar. Your pH will crash before you get anywhere near completion.

I'd say for a neutral sugar wash, any of the following recipes/procedures will get you started. Follow them closely and you shouldn't have trouble.
viewtopic.php?t=6782&hilit=winos
viewtopic.php?t=56998
viewtopic.php?t=9981
viewtopic.php?t=5018

[Turbo6ta]

The bottled water came out of one of those machines at the grocery store. I bring an empty gallon plastic jug and fill it at the machine ... aerated ??

Just checked the wash pH ... 4.0 with no sour taste

The Lalvin EC-1118 yeast packet is 5 grams that I just purchased (buy before date is: 11/2027)

Didn't check the gravity when pitched

Everything I have read states that 2 lb of granulated sugar per gallon of water is ok (but pretty much the max for sugar wash)

I have not checked the wash temp today, but the air temp in the house is 79 degrees ... BTW: the tap water out of the faucet in the house here in Florida tastes terrible and I won't even make coffee with it and I certainly am not going to use it for making any kind of beer or spirits.

[Turbo6ta]

Maybe I should add another teaspoon of Fermaid K to the wash ?

[Yummyrum]

You need to aerate, or stir the living daylights out of a wash before you add yeast . The yeast need the oxygen to build up the colony before they start converting the sugar to alcohol. It wouldn’t hurt to do it now and add more nutrient . But generally you should only do it once . Never keep stirring once the yeast have multiplied and the bubbling begun .

Your wash has an ABV of 14% . That is pretty high .Aim for closer to 10% and the yeast will cope better and make less bad tasting byproducts .

[NZChris]

The hydrometer can't tell anybody anything from inside it's box.

[shadylane]

EC-1118 is noted to be slow at starting.
I'd add some more K in a day or two because the directions are based on fruit juice that already has some nutrients in it.
Water has almost none.

[NZChris]

You need to know that wash is aerated and not leave that to chance or to somebody else. I use an aquarium pump.

[Salt Must Flow]

I use a drill & mixing paddle to really get the wash all aerated. It doesn't take long especially considering that you have to MIX all the ingredients anyway.

[Saltbush Bill]

Would it not have been easier to follow a Tried and True recipe to the letter, those recipes are there for a reason.........they work.

[Turbo6ta]

Well, I am going to Walmart today and buy a small fish tank air bubbler pump and get my slow fermenting sugar wash some oxygen.

Hopefully that will get it motivated

[Saltbush Bill]

If that was a good idea or needed.. I'd think that it would be common practice by now.

[acfixer69]

Bad idea that will insure bacteria infection at this stage. Also EC-1118 does not like 90F temp. water.

[Salt Must Flow]

The instructions on a packet of EC-1118 I have says to hydrate it at 95F-98.6F.

You don't need an air pump to oxygenate the wash. A mixing paddle on a drill works beautifully and would work much faster than an air pump too. Mixing paddles are useful where air pumps are not.

[NZChris]

Putting air into partially fermented wash is how to make vinegar.

Check the SG pH & temperature before you do anything.

[Turbo6ta]

Well, from all the comments, I guess buying the little air pump bubbler was a bad idea. So, I understand that more than likely I will be making vinegar now.

I just removed the air bubbler ... I guess I may just dump the whole thing and start over at some later date.

I had much better luck fermenting home brewed beer wort than I am having fermenting a very basic sugar and water wash.
_________________________________

Ijust checked the wash with a digital thermometer ... The temp is 79.5 F (same temp as inside the house) and the pH is 4.0

The wash tastes sweet but with a slight alcohol flavor. Not the same as the taste when I first poured it into the carboy ... Actually it tastes pretty good and not just a sugar water taste.

[NZChris]

Prematurely dumping a wash is a bad idea and is mostly done by newbies who have followed bad advice, (or not followed good advice), and not by old hands. You don't even know what the SG is and you're already talking about kicking the can over.

[Turbo6ta]

I know what specific gravity is but my hydrometer can't measure it ... it only shows what % alcohol the liquid is and the it's proof.

Well, if my wash has now been tainted by using the bubbler there is no sense in keeping it. I had no idea that a bubbler would more than likely turn my sugar wash into vinegar.

As far as the advice I get; yes I'm a newbie and don't know the difference between good or bad advice so I just stumble along and sometimes ask stupid questions on this forum.

[Saltbush Bill]

That is not a hydrometer, it's an alcometer.
Your success rate would improve with less typing and more reading

[acfixer69]

That is why tried and true is recommended for newbs.

[Turbo6ta]

Sorry Saltbush, I will just keep to my self and not post anymore

[shadylane]

It's common to aerate a sugar wash with a paint stirrer and drill before pitching the yeast.
Yeast needs oxygen during the lag phase for multiplying but not after.
Once the yeast has a high enough population it will make Co2 and alcohol in the anaerobic environment it's made for itself.
Sounds like you missed the aerating step and the bottled water was short on dissolved oxygen.
Therefor the ec1118 is taking longer than normal to get started. And 1118 is already a slowpoke.
I wouldn't dump the wash, instead I'd wait.

[NZChris]

It isn't going to turn into vinegar if it doesn't have the bacteria to do it. If your brewery has vinegar flies hanging around they might inoculate it for you.

Get the correct hydrometer and learn how to use it. People who tell you that you don't need one are only partially correct. You don't need one until you are suspicious that something has gone wrong.

[shadylane]

Maybe I should add another teaspoon of Fermaid K to the wash ?

Fermaid K works good as a nutrient supplement.
But there's a better DIY option, PUGIDOGS yeast bomb

viewtopic.php?t=5994
Plan B, since you already have Fermaid, use it and also boil some fresh bakers yeast to mix with it.

[Salt Must Flow]

Maybe I should add another teaspoon of Fermaid K to the wash ?

Fermaid K works good as a nutrient supplement.
But there's a better DIY option, PUGIDOGS yeast bomb

viewtopic.php?t=5994

I've searched 'PUGIDOGS yeast bomb' multiple times and cannot find it. It looks like you were trying to post a link, but it didn't work.

Can you list a link to that?

[shadylane]

I f#ckup somehow.

viewtopic.php?t=5994

Where the recipe calls for "5 teaspoons of 20-0-0, agrcultural fertalizer" use around 1-2 table spoons of DAP.

[Salt Must Flow]

I f#ckup somehow.

viewtopic.php?t=5994

Where the recipe calls for "5 teaspoons of 20-0-0, agrcultural fertalizer" use around 1-2 table spoons of DAP.

Ok, I see now. It's not an actual 'yeast bomb', it's just nutrients for yeast to be added to a wash.

Shady's Sugar Shine recipe might be a better example in this case.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

Sugar washes are prone to ph crash. You can add a few cups of crushed oyster shells and they will auto-regulate the ph.
An airlock does not cause vinegar so don't dump it. Airlocks are needed for hopped beer and wine but not for liquor. There are several kinds of hydrometers, one is for alcohol proof and another will tell you the specific gravity. It's best to have both.
You may have used too much sugar. And need to add some water to get your gravity down to a normal yeast happy level.
The easiest way to make liquor and it not fail is to follow the Tried and True recipes on this site until you have enough knowledge to build recipes on your own. Just keep on trying, you'll get it.

[subbrew]

Keep the aquarium pump. if you are fermenting in carboys a pump and stone is the easiest way to get air in the carboy. Stirring in a carboy is not that effective because little new air goes down the neck.

I am probably too late now but if you have not seen much activity you can still add air to a ferment even a couple of days in. When I am making a high gravity mead I aerate at the start but will add more air between 12 and 24 hrs, but it has been a late as 36. Also do a search on "step feeding". For high gravity in a carboy using air you just can't get enough O2 in solution with air, so you need to do it at least twice. The better solution is to aerate with O2 rather than air, but that is a bit more equipment. As for vinegar, it takes time to develop. First the aceto bacteria need to get going and then additional time for them to eat the alcohol and make vinegar. Not going to happen in a couple of weeks from start of ferment to running in the still. And you need the alcohol present for vinegar.

I am not recommending high gravity for a sugar wash. But if you want more information on sugar fermentation read up on mead making. The techniques required are the same.