CCVM Reflux Coil Question

[fzbwfk9r]

I've almost done putting my 2" copper CCVM together and in service

came up against a couple questions

I see many ask about how high above the TEE to run the column, but to me, that depends wholy on the Reflux Coil (RC)

my RC is 3/8" ID CSST coil, 5 inches of a single wind coil from 60" CSST

my water is fairly constant at 6C from my basement tap

I realize you only needs to have the RC at the top of the vapour outlet (VO) to have 50% reflux and full vapour outflow to the Product Condenser (PC)

but the question comes in, "how far below the bottom of the VO does one need to have 100% reflux and totally cut off the VO?

Now, I also realize there are variables in each different still/setup, but on average, where is the consensus?

This makes a difference as to how far above the VO I run my column.

I'm looking for a ball park, so I can shorten my column. if I go a touch to low, I can always reduce the length of the RC tails.

my initial thoughts were, being a 5" coil, 2" VO, I'd need at least 5" to keep the coil in the column, but any extra would not be needed, and the tails would need to be at least 7" above the top of the coil so when completely below the VO, the tails would hold it there

But how much below the VO does the bottom of the RC need to be to guarantee 100 reflux?

if just below the VO, I would only need to have 5" column above and very short tails

had anyone got real experience with this?

DAD300?

[MooseMan]

As you said, lots of variables so there's no specific answer.

But, what I did/do and what I'd recommend is, have the end of the coil well past the bottom of the VO so that it can be easily capable of knocking all the vapour down in its lowest position, for 100% reflux.

Then when you do your first runs, fine tune the water flow so that with the coil all the way down, you get just the tiniest drip, then increase the flow back up a little.

Now you have the most efficient RC conditions.

[fzbwfk9r]

Hey Moose.
Thank you for the response.
Without anyone having an identical setup, I know it is impossible to get a definite answer, but yours makes a lot of sense.
And until I get my thermometer set up in the RC outflow to check temps, I think I'll take your advice and set up like you said.
it makes sense to me, and I should be able to run with your info in mind.

I have been reading a lot on the operations of a CCVM column, and have taken many notes of others' thoughts and ideas.
I've put together a plan but I'm probably overthinking things at this time.
Once I have some experience on the operations, I can start to fine tune my procedures to my column's specifics.

Thanks again for the information.
I'll update you when I can get some runs in, see how it goes.

FZ

[Salt Must Flow]

fzbwfk9r, is your column a single length piece? If not then you can reduce the height of the column and do a test run. During your test run, you can determine exactly what range of motion you need for your reflux condenser. Take the product you collected during your test run, pour it back down your column and you won't lose anything.

[fzbwfk9r]

Here's my coil and column/TEE before sizing both.
I went to SS TEE for the smoothness inside, my other TEEs are copper with SS flanges inserted, and they create a bit of a block, and I worry about damage to the coil eventually.
I'm not worried, as my pot still and thumpers use those 2" TEEs as well

my coils are 5 inches deep overall.

and here's a close up of my coil base. Single wind 3/8" ID CSST.

[fzbwfk9r]

fzbwfk9r, is your column a single length piece? If not then you can reduce the height of the column and do a test run. During your test run, you can determine exactly what range of motion you need for your reflux condenser. Take the product you collected during your test run, pour it back down your column and you won't lose anything.

Hey Salty, currently I have a single piece about 60" then a SS TEE, then I'll add a short extension, just enough so when the coils are above the Vapour Outlet, they are still housed in the column.

I have a few flanges/TriClamps that I was going to use to make the 60" column into modular pieces about 20" long each, so I could use 1, 2, or 3 packed pieces... my thinking 1 for brown spirits, 2 for light/vodkas, and 3 for neutrals.

I have a couple small pieces of 2" that I can use for the top of the column if I am going to go shorter.
and I have my original pot still top that I won't use as that again, as I changed to modular column/pot and a Trombone condenser that attaches to my TEE with a 1" union on a 2-1" reducer that triclamps to my TEEs, and my pot will now feed either the column, or my 2 thumpers.... I hope to make a decent Rum with those.

Now, when you say to return the product to the column by pouring it in the top, that is for when I do a run, and am dialing in the coil.... I can try, return the product, try again, return the product, try aga.... this is what you mean??
I like that idea... it would allow me to really practice the dialing in of the coil!!

[fzbwfk9r]

Salt Must Flow, another question:

could I just set the coil/tee setup on top my pot with some low wines, and run it like that without a packed column, just to get the coil height dialed in?

if I am only using the pot, it shouldn't make that much difference to how the coil sees vapour, right?

[Salt Must Flow]

fzbwfk9r, is your column a single length piece? If not then you can reduce the height of the column and do a test run. During your test run, you can determine exactly what range of motion you need for your reflux condenser. Take the product you collected during your test run, pour it back down your column and you won't lose anything.

Hey Salty, currently I have a single piece about 60" then a SS TEE, then I'll add a short extension, just enough so when the coils are above the Vapour Outlet, they are still housed in the column.

I have a few flanges/TriClamps that I was going to use to make the 60" column into modular pieces about 20" long each, so I could use 1, 2, or 3 packed pieces... my thinking 1 for brown spirits, 2 for light/vodkas, and 3 for neutrals.

I have a couple small pieces of 2" that I can use for the top of the column if I am going to go shorter.
and I have my original pot still top that I won't use as that again, as I changed to modular column/pot and a Trombone condenser that attaches to my TEE with a 1" union on a 2-1" reducer that triclamps to my TEEs, and my pot will now feed either the column, or my 2 thumpers.... I hope to make a decent Rum with those.

Now, when you say to return the product to the column by pouring it in the top, that is for when I do a run, and am dialing in the coil.... I can try, return the product, try again, return the product, try aga.... this is what you mean??
I like that idea... it would allow me to really practice the dialing in of the coil!!

You got it. You can operate the still, practice collecting at different take-off rates, etc... Whatever product you collect, simply pour it right down the pipe that houses your reflux condenser.

Some people have a height limit where they operate their still and want to build their reflux column to fit that height. I may have 'assumed' that was the case in your instance. That's why I asked if your column has multiple segments. You could just reduce the height of your column a bit, do a test run and figure out exactly what length of pipe you need to house your reflux condenser.

[Salt Must Flow]

Salt Must Flow, another question:

could I just set the coil/tee setup on top my pot with some low wines, and run it like that without a packed column, just to get the coil height dialed in?

if I am only using the pot, it shouldn't make that much difference to how the coil sees vapour, right?

It would probably be ideal if your column contained packing. As you pour product back down the column, it will cool the top portion of the packing, the cooler packing knocks down any hot vapors that try to rise back up the column. There's probably more down sides to not having packing than using packing.

[fzbwfk9r]

SMF, I understand your question

right now, I have some limits on my height in the basement, but during the summer, I can still outside using propane, and will have a deck to stand on so height issues won't be issues.

so, my thinking was to break the column into parts, I can use less for different products, and when making neutral, I'm restricted to outside due to propane.

now, as an aside, I'm also working on a 1.5" column with a concentric condenser (may not need it as I can adapt my coil using my 2-1.5" SS TriClamp reducer on top, as I can add a break just above the takeoff.)
once I have that, I may not need to make much neutral in the 2", as my tastes lean to rum/bourbon, and only my wife is stuck on the clear stuff with macerations etc.

[fzbwfk9r]

Salt Must Flow, another question:

could I just set the coil/tee setup on top my pot with some low wines, and run it like that without a packed column, just to get the coil height dialed in?

if I am only using the pot, it shouldn't make that much difference to how the coil sees vapour, right?

It would probably be ideal if your column contained packing. As you pour product back down the column, it will cool the top portion of the packing, the cooler packing knocks down any hot vapors that try to rise back up the column. There's probably more down sides to not having packing than using packing.

Got it. having packing in it should pose no issues for me, once I can move outside, or have the column broke into pieces for different heights/packing amounts.

[Yummyrum]

Be very cautious pouring high proof back into the boiler .
It will flash boil when it hits the hot liquid in the boiler and shoot right back up at you invariably burning your hand as you pour it in .

Don’t ask me how I know