Butyric acid

[Corn Cracker]

I have some questions about that horrible vomit smelling little bug.

How is it avoided?

Is this only in all grain mashes?
I haven't noticed it in sugar head washes

Is it caused from improper ph?
Seems like an acidic environment would be inviting.

Does letting the mash cool on its own for hours invite it in?
I've gotten it twice, both were left to cool to pitching temp on their own, wrapped up,

I currently have an all corn mash that i cooled down after conversion to get to pitching temp and got a digital ph pen to keep everything just under 5
And no puke smell this time

Just just trying to pinpoint cause and prevention for myself the other novices out there.

[Ben]

Butyric acid will be a possibility any time you have a wet sugary environment. For our purpose its a precursor to lactic acid. Essentially it means you haven't gotten your yeast going quickly enough. You may actually be able to decrease the pH (make it more acidic) to largely bypass it and get lacto to go faster. The better route would be to get your yeast colony going immediately and not let the butyric go off.

Butyric acid is caused by Clostridium, they will oxidize sugars, and require O2. So get the O2 out by having a good yeast propagation phase and they won't bother you.

In your case you can either cool faster, their main activity phase is 80-96°f, and can go slow at 78°f and up to 113°f. Or you can just get your entire wash above pasteurization temp and hold for a minimum of 10 mins.

Best thing to do is pitch proper amount of yeast, as quickly as possible.

[NormandieStill]

I got an infection in my first HBB wash that nearly resulted in my new hobby being shut down by my otherwise fairly tolerant wife. As a result I built a wort chiller and now actively cool all mashes down to pitching temp. I aim to mash-in early afternoon and have yeast pitched before bedtime.

[NZChris]

It is considered, by some, to be a disirable infection as it's ester, ethyl butyrate, smells like pineapple. Don't run it while it still smells like vomit.

[Stonecutter]

It is considered, by some, to be a disirable infection as it's ester, ethyl butyrate, smells like pineapple. Don't run it while it still smells like vomit.

That’s my hypothesis on how Glenlivet gets the pineapple flavor into some of their Scotches

[Demy]

I had this problem 2 times with 100% maize washing (small experiments) and yeast angel (I think it's a coincidence), in the first it was a mild smell and the product was very good, in the second it was strong, I performed anyway to do experience knowing that maybe he wouldn't go well ... it's still in my glass jar together with wooden sticks .... we'll see the result but I don't think it's good ..

[Corn Cracker]

I appreciate the feedback, y'all cleared it all up, for me anyway..
I reckon I'm not quite experienced enough to recognize where I'm going wrong trying to let it cool down on its own. I've got the chiller made and on standby for this weeks mash.

The wife is patient but works hard to keep the house smelling good with me and 3 dogs, she said no more puke in the house.
I've heard 2 weeks for the pineapple to show up, i had 20 gallons go for 17 days, i dumped it in the ditch.
Ben, i think mine must have shown up around the 113° point, it was there by 95°

[Kindafrench]

Had 80 liters of "wineos" infected. Guessing it was my own fault, because I didn't follow the rules. Quick mashup and dump of a new wash on the lees of the first wineos ferment. 2nd generation didn't start well, had to repitch yeast, too much fuzzing with the wash. It started smelling bad and it was a pita to get rid of the smell if the infected liquid touch my skin or even some tools.
Anyway, I let the bacteria do it's magic, because I read about the cheese/pineapple flavour when it's done. It took some months to finish. I ran it nice and slow. Made a very special drop. The taste differs from the smell. It's quite enjoyable in small amounts, but not for a whole evening, imho. I'm still not sure how to use it. Maybe I'll add some to my first rum.
What I wanted to say: try it out, don't dump it.
Clean your stuff afterwards Fortunately I had this infection only once.

[Corn Cracker]

I should have mentioned that i ran the batch that i didn't dump, it turned out ok, the faint smell was there till i put the top on the pot, it didn't come through in distillation, that i could tell anyway.

[Corn Cracker]

4 mashes done since i posted this, i am utilizing a copper coil chiller to get it down to pitching temp and have had no issues with the butric funk. Again, i appreciate y'alls wisdom

[Yonder]

I just ran a 3d gen UJ that had a faint vomit smell. Early run seemed to be okay but tasting around the upper 50s revealed a strong bitter taste. The original wash took off fast the slowed to a halt with a pH of around 4. Picked it back up with a bit pf calcium carbonate. We’ll see in a month after oaking what comes of it.

[HDNB]

i've actually been looking for one for years now.

had a really strong one and ran it before the puke smell left. the resulting distillate also stunk of vomit. after a couple years it started to mellow and the taste was different than the smell.

after about 3 years it still had a hint of smell in the background, but the taste was quite interesting and complex. i don't thin the smell ever completely went away before the whisky did.

i'd really like to experiment with more of it. i'd like to try waiting it out on the ferment until it cleans up.

[Ben]

If your trying to get it purposely I have had it every time I mashed with crimped barley (horse feed), and didn't quick chill. The funk does tame in time, and can turn into other things. It can be nice as a small percentage of the overall barrel fill. Just avoid open ferments with it

[Yonder]

Oh.my gawd.Ran it tasted it. Bitterness carried over. I’m dumping a gallon of crap. Live and learn.

[NZChris]

Oh.my gawd.Ran it tasted it. Bitterness carried over. I’m dumping a gallon of crap. Live and learn.

I bet I could have made it into something useful using advice I've come across numerous times on this forum. I haven't personally had to deal with this one in Low Wines or finished product, as I learned, from this forum, not to run it until it esterified into yummy pineapple flavor before stripping it.

I wish I'd had that knowledge over thirty years ago when I kicked a 25 gallon can of vomit smelling corn over. All I had to do was wait a couple more days

[NormandieStill]

I wish I'd had that knowledge over thirty years ago when I kicked a 25 gallon can of vomit smelling corn over. All I had to do was wait a couple more days

I waited quite a while before finally giving up on mine. For a couple of weeks the smell of vomit in the house got increasingly strong. I then gave it another week in the shed. When I finally dumped the lot on the compost, the garden smelled of post-party student residence for another few days. I think that not all butyric acid infections are the same!

[NZChris]

It needs acid and alcohol to esterify. Since then, I've had infections turn nice without me checking, or adjusting, the pH or doing anything other than wait. If I ever get a particularly stubborn one, I'll bump up the ABV with some high proof and drop the pH with some H2SO4.

[Yonder]

Well, it sat for around 3 weeks and I said “what the hell” power is cheap. I ran it. Wont do that again. After about 6 pints the product began to get iffy.a couple of jars later it was bitter as sin. I did put a couple or pints on oak, just to see if it mellows out in 6 months.
My advice, not withstanding the one or two comments that surfaced about pineapple, is don’t waste your time. Dump it. Sanitize an start over

[Corn Cracker]

Well, I just got it again on an all corn mash, the 2 buckets are 1 day apart and one has the powdered bubbles with a pineapple note, the other is still smelling pretty sharp and funky.

[Corn Cracker]

It's been so long I forgot about not letting it drop to pitching temp on its own.

[MooseMan]

Well, if you can afford to wait, by all accounts it will turn to magic by itself.
If it ever happens to me I'll probably try helping it along by adding some feints and acid to esterify the butyric.
Keep us posted!

[Corn Cracker]

Funny thing,
I was looking up butric and came across this thread not realizing it was mine, I thought, this guy sounds familiar

[Captain Spaulding]

Hey friends, I have a honey bear bourbon ferment that smells a bit like puke. Not super intense but does smell like barf. I don’t notice so much sniffing a cup but sniffing the bucket yeah. It’s been fermenting 3 weeks now, it’s at 1.004 and ph 2.9, 6.03% ABV. Will I get to pineapple under these conditions or should I throw in some neutral to speed up esterification, or just strip it? What ABV/PH combo is best?

[Corn Cracker]

I was hoping more experience would answer that for you. As far as I know, the esters should change on their own and shouldn't be ran until the change happens because the taste will carry over. I had 2 cases of it not changing in the few days it should have and i dumped it. This is the 3rd infection and the only time it changed to pineapple

[Yummyrum]

LOL , I have a associative smell thing . If I smelt chuck , even if it changed , I’d still smell it as chuck . Can’t do vomit or cheese
Parmesan is the worst

[higgins]

I had this issue a few years ago when a batch wasn't cooled fast enough.
Some mistakes

What I did was to recombine the distillate from the spirit run, dilute to 28% (making 5 gallons), and add 1 tbsp baking soda. I left it for about 3 weeks and the vomit turned to pineapple. I ran it and it was pretty good.