Can You Invert Sugar Using Heating Elements ? ? ?

[Salt Must Flow]

Can sugar be inverted using internal heating elements without scorching? I have 15.5 gal keg/keggle/kettle with two Dernord 240V 5500W wavy, fold-back elements each with their own Auber DSPR400 controller. I can control the power to each element by 1% increments. I've searched the site, online and haven't found any direct sources, only second hand sources that say it's been done as long as each element's power is reduced starting at 30% and may be increased up to 50% along with agitation or using RIMS with pump.

I used to invert my sugar over propane heat prior to making sugar washes. I stopped inverting the sugar because it was inconvenient and refilling propane tanks was a pain in the ass. I've read that Invertase (an enzyme) can be used to invert sugar without heat (takes 1-2 days depending on how much is used), but I haven't found a source that's priced well enough to give it a try.

[MooseMan]

I would say, if you're not in a rush to get it up to temp and either happy to stir or setup an agitator, you can just have your heat on a very slow ramp and it would be fine.

Why do you want to invert in any case?

[Yummyrum]

When inverting , I always used 1kg sugar with 500ml water over gas . When I topped up with cold , it was close to pitching temp .
But the invert sugar syrup was very thick . I really don’t know if you could do it with an element unless you had a heap more water ( and agitator) and slowly added the sugar when the water was boiling .Otherwise , all the sugar will be below or around the element until it dissolves . But then , you’d need to let it cool down before pitching .
Since moving to electric , I don’t bother with the inverting anymore . I always thought I got a bit less sugar bite with invert sugar , but not so sure now .

[Salt Must Flow]

I would say, if you're not in a rush to get it up to temp and either happy to stir or setup an agitator, you can just have your heat on a very slow ramp and it would be fine.

Why do you want to invert in any case?

Inverting the sugar for a sugar wash supposedly makes it easier & faster for the yeast to ferment, less stress and it always seemed to provide a higher yield.

I've always liked the idea of rigging up a magnetic stir plate beneath a keg. Something that is nearly silent in comparison to a drill & mixing paddle on a speed controller.

[Yummyrum]

I use a magnetic stirrer at work and it is a very strong one , but if I am making solutions and dump a pile of solid chemical in there , it will stall it or cause it to jump and bounce . Always slowly add solid . Not saying you can’t make a better one Salty . Just need to be mindful. I recon if the stir-bar was fixed on a pivot , it might behave better .

[greggn]

I used to invert my sugar over propane heat prior to making sugar washes. I stopped inverting the sugar because it was inconvenient and refilling propane tanks was a pain in the ass. I've read that Invertase (an enzyme) can be used to invert sugar without heat (takes 1-2 days depending on how much is used), but I haven't found a source that's priced well enough to give it a try.

So why not use dextrose/corn sugar ? Though it has a higher out-of-pocket cost than sucrose it would require no additional labor or power to make a wash.

[Salt Must Flow]

I use a magnetic stirrer at work and it is a very strong one , but if I am making solutions and dump a pile of solid chemical in there , it will stall it or cause it to jump and bounce . Always slowly add solid . Not saying you can’t make a better one Salty . Just need to be mindful. I recon if the stir-bar was fixed on a pivot , it might behave better .

I was thinking after sugar was already mixed & dissolved using a mixing paddle. It just seemed to me that it may be possible to create constant agitation using a relatively large magnetic stirrer. Brew pumps are becoming more economical these days though.

[Salt Must Flow]

I used to invert my sugar over propane heat prior to making sugar washes. I stopped inverting the sugar because it was inconvenient and refilling propane tanks was a pain in the ass. I've read that Invertase (an enzyme) can be used to invert sugar without heat (takes 1-2 days depending on how much is used), but I haven't found a source that's priced well enough to give it a try.

So why not use dextrose/corn sugar ? Though it has a higher out-of-pocket cost than sucrose it would require no additional labor or power to make a wash.

The current price in my area for a 25lb bag of sugar is $16.50-$20 depending on where I buy it.

I don't think I can find large bags of dextrose locally. I see different prices online, but shipping is the killer. It would actually be a lot cheaper to use sugar and Invertase if I really wanted to invert the sugar using no power.

[Salt Must Flow]

When inverting , I always used 1kg sugar with 500ml water over gas . When I topped up with cold , it was close to pitching temp .
But the invert sugar syrup was very thick . I really don’t know if you could do it with an element unless you had a heap more water ( and agitator) and slowly added the sugar when the water was boiling .Otherwise , all the sugar will be below or around the element until it dissolves . But then , you’d need to let it cool down before pitching .
Since moving to electric , I don’t bother with the inverting anymore . I always thought I got a bit less sugar bite with invert sugar , but not so sure now .

If my conversion is correct, it looks like you used 2.5 parts sugar to 1 part water by volume.

I checked my notes and I used approx the same ratio of water to sugar. 2.25 parts sugar to 1 part water by volume. I don't recall it being all that viscous. It's been a while since I've inverted sugar though.

[Stags]

Here’s an interesting one for you salty. When I was making rum I would use my thumper to invert sugar. Not super scientific, but I’d fill the thump with enough water to cover the downcomer and to the brim with panela chunks or half full with molasses. Appropriate amount of citric acid, fill primary with water, and let her rip for a couple hours. Gave good results but nothing scientific. Being my still is electric- just pointing out a way to invert the things with electric without the scorch risk

Bonus points- I’d use that “charge” for the thumper for rum spirit runs. You get distillate with a heavy molasses flavor and some inverted sugar with some nice rum oils in it

[NZChris]

I have made the mistake of adding water to sugar when trying to make caramel. There was no burning and no browning reaction until most, maybe all, of the water had evaporated.

I don't convert unless doing another generation of a sugar wash like rum or UJSSM, or making a Simple Syrup for liqueurs. Dumping hot backset onto sugar works well enough for me.

I haven't read anything that convinces me that the time and energy expended to convert sugar for a sugar wash neutral is worth the effort, so I don't have a side by side comparison.

[MooseMan]

I did quite a bit of research on inverting but it was so long ago I don't remember the details.

The conclusions I came to were that it's not worth the extra effort or cost in power, when there is no conclusive proof that it makes a discernible difference.
I do remember reading though, that yeast cells produce their own invertase in order to chop the sugar chains, so whilst I would agree that it does take longer to ferment, the yeild is not affected all things being equal.

[Salt Must Flow]

MooseMan, you're probably right. I carefully read everyone's replies multiple times. It seems that everyone who has inverted their sugar decided to stop (including me). Not a big enough payoff to continue doing it. I was just pondering on ways to make inverting sugar more convenient and that might narrow the gap between being a big pain in the ass to 'it's not a big deal so why not'.