My gin tastes and smells like solvent

[Turbo6ta]

I am new to home spirits distilling and just made my first batch of gin with my smallish 5-gal pot still with a 5-tube 'shotgun' condensor attached.

The final product is crystal clear and has been diluted with water to be 40% ABV, however, it tastes and smells like parts solvent that is flavored slightly with juniper berry.

I understand that making good cuts is a learned thing that is done with the smell and taste senses that is aquired over time. Since I have never made homemade spirits before, I can't tell the difference between cuts that you keep and cuts that you dump, and I don't know anyone personally that can actually give me hands-on smell and taste training ... I am betting most everyone that is brand new to spirit distilling has dumped a batch of spirits at least once that turned out bad untill they had some experiance in this fine art of distilling.

I am wondering if I could save some of this gin if I re-distilled it once again, or just dump it all in the sink and try again on a different day.

Thanks,

[Turbo6ta]

I will say that I discarded the first full cup of spirits that came out of the still on both the stripping run and on the spirits run, so I don't think my final product had a bunch of that nasty poisonous alcohol in it I keep reading about.

Also, the fermented sugar wash that I first put in the boiler pot smelled and tasted ok ... No vinegar or strange smell or taste, so it was all good up to that point.

[Yummyrum]

So you did a stripping Run and a Spirit run in a Pot still .

Did you then do a third Run to make the Gin or did you do that on the Spirit run ?

The trick to a good Gin is to start with the cleanest Spirit you can . That can be hard on a Pot Still . You may have to cut even more heads out on the spirit run as that is where the solvent smell is .

I asked about two or three runs because if you added the Botanicals on the second run , and removed the cup full , you were taking the tasty Juniper with the heads cut .

You need to do all your cuts on the 2nd Run ( your spirit run ) and on the third run , add the botanicals and not make more than the tiniest cut ( an ounce maybe ) or you’ll loose the good stuff

[Turbo6ta]

I did a total of just 2 runs, a stripping run followed by a spirit run. After the botanicals seeped in 2 cups of vodka for 3 days while in a cloth bag, I then squeezed out the bag and added the botanical flavored vodka to the pot prior to starting that spirit run.

I think next I won't macerate the botanicals ... I will just add a cloth bag of them to the sight glass I have in my still's column during the spirit run. Will that still work since I don't have a reflux style column on my still ?

My still is nothing really special and not that big, but it does make some really clear spirits, and even very clear after diluting down to 40% ABV (80 proof).

[Turbo6ta]

I guess if I added the below item to my pot still, it would turn it into a reflux still ?

https://oakstills.com/products/2-inch-g ... U2GmYYEwy4

[Saltbush Bill]

The answer is very simple, you need to make better cuts before even starting the process of making the gin..
Making a clean base spirit using a pot still won't be easy.
It could easily require 2 or 3 runs and good tight cuts before even making the gin.
Putting your spirit back to 40% ea h time will make for a cleaner spirt.

https://oakstills.com/products/2-inch-g ... U2GmYYEwy4
Adding that will turn your current still into a plated column still. Plated columns are for flavoured products.
What you need is a packed column.

[Turbo6ta]

Bill ... Great advice, but in my case since I have never distilled before, I really don't know a good cut from a bad cut.

And I am thinking that the best way to learn about making proper cuts is to have someone be right there helping you out till you can sense the difference without any assistance ... Unfortunatly, I don't have anyone that can show (and help me smell and taste) the way to making cuts.

I just may purchase that reflux column that I posted a link to up top ... if it will work as fuctioning 'reflux still'.

[Steve Broady]

I really don't know a good cut from a bad cut.

Yes you do, you just don’t know it yet. Taste it. Does it taste good? Then that’s hearts. Does it taste bad? That’s heads or tails (depending on where you are in the run). It’s that simple. You’re making something that you want to taste good, so taste it and see if it’s good.

[SW_Shiner]

Just adding that part to your still will just make it a taller pot still, also need to add a reflux condenser to take advantage of the plates. But as SBB said, that's not the kind of still you want for gin.
A cup full may not be enough to take off for fores/heads if looking for a cleaner neutral, also, a cup full off the top of a spirit run with botanicals is probably too much and will be throwing away a lot of the juniper and some of the more subtle notes.
If i was using a pot still for the entire gin making, id strip till my low wines were around 40%, then dilute with water to 30%. Id run spirit run a bit slower than i normally would and make conservative cuts, taking just the cleanest jars and leaving a rest aside as feints for next time. Botanical run would be done as i usually do. In the morning, i add my finished clean spirit and botanicals to my boiler and bring it up to about 55-60°c, cut the heat, put lid on and leave it till that night. Run is completed as recommended in Odins Easy Gin. Discard the first 10ml, then collect 400ml per litre of starting volume.

[Turbo6ta]

Thanks for the info ...

So, maybe dump the first 2 cups of the distilate (fores) that comes out of the condenser during the beginning of the stripping run, and then don't dump any of the first fores of the spirit run when botanicals are in the pot.

BTW, I stripped my low wines down to 20% ABV at the end of the stripping run before turning the heat off and stopping the distillation.

[Saltbush Bill]

None of us had someone standing next to us to learn how to to do this . You just have to learn like the rest of us, by trial , error and experience.
It's also no good talking about a cup of this or two cups of that. The quantities can vary from wash to wash.
Learn to trust your senses of taste and smell and collect in small jars especially if using a,small still and boiler.
Start out reading this viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11640
Then find the stuff that Yummy has written on making cuts.
Maybe someone at some time told you that distilling was going to be simple.
If you are happy to make rubbish it can be, if your aim is to make quality, then there is a lot to learn.

[SW_Shiner]

I dont take cuts on a stripping run. Cuts are done on the spirit run. Then what is kept from that goes into the botanical run.

[greggn]

Taste it. Does it taste good? Then that’s hearts. Does it taste bad? That’s heads or tails (depending on where you are in the run). It’s that simple.

It's surprising how long it takes folks to understand how really basic it is. Taste is such a simple, yet reliable, indicator.

Smell/aroma, too, but especially taste.

[Turbo6ta]

When tasting my last gin spirit run, maybe I should be comparing it somewhat to a shot of store bought gin ?

Well anyway .. Thanks for trying to help a new to distilling guy out.

I guess I will pick all this up as time goes on, but for someone that is virgin to all this, it's a little bit daunting, to say the least.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

Taste it. Does it taste good? Then that’s hearts. Does it taste bad? That’s heads or tails (depending on where you are in the run). It’s that simple.

It's surprising how long it takes folks to understand how really basic it is. Taste is such a simple, yet reliable, indicator.

Smell/aroma, too, but especially taste.

[howie]

When tasting my last gin spirit run, maybe I should be comparing it somewhat to a shot of store bought gin ?

Well anyway .. Thanks for trying to help a new to distilling guy out.

I guess I will pick all this up as time goes on, but for someone that is virgin to all this, it's a little bit daunting, to say the least.

i personally do a pot still stripping run, then reflux spirit run to get good neutral, then do a masceration and pot still for the 3rd run.
i will say that the the gin that comes off the 3rd run is not drinkable and has no great gin aroma.
it takes at least 3 weeks for the gin to start tasting/smelling good, with 5 weeks being the average time.
maybe wait for a few weeks first?
the only hard bit in making gin is the spirit run, where making good neutral is the basic ingredient.

[Turbo6ta]

Thank you howie ..

[Yummyrum]

I dont take cuts on a stripping run. Cuts are done on the spirit run. Then what is kept from that goes into the botanical run.

i personally do a pot still stripping run, then reflux spirit run to get good neutral, then do a masceration and pot still for the 3rd run.

.
If i was using a pot still for the entire gin making, id strip till my low wines were around 40%, then dilute with water to 30%. Id run spirit run a bit slower than i normally would and make conservative cuts, taking just the cleanest jars and leaving a rest aside as feints for next time. Botanical run would be done as i usually do.

Turbo6ta
Have you noticed the common theme in all the advice that you are getting ( including what I posted)
You need to do three runs
1) stripping run
2) spirit run
3) Gin run , (or Botanical run or Maceration run )… different names for the same thing

[NZChris]

I’ve made a lot of good gin with simple pot stills. Remove a foreshot from each strip, strip to around 40% in the receiver, spirit run using taste and smell to select a heart cut. The heart cut is quite narrow compared to hearts from molasses and grains, so don’t be greedy. If you stuff it up, add water and do another spirit run.

Next, add the botanicals and do the gin run.

Fixing your current batch is a PITA. Maybe water it down to 40% or less and do a spirit run into jars then choosing a heart cut like you should have done in the first place, then adding the botanicals for the gin run.

[Yummyrum]

The Spirit run is where you make your cuts .
You should have collected all your spirit in jars .
Best to have about 20 minimum .

The ones in the middle ( I’ve labeled them tight Hearts cut) have minimal smell and taste . These would be the ones that will be selected to continue on to the Gin run phase .

As you can see , there are a lot of jars after the initial Fireshots jar . These jars are the heads . The ones on the Left will contain the most solventy smells and tastes . As you progress toward the middle , the solvent will slowly change to a sickly sweet taste and smell and that will slowly decrease as you near the middle .

Going to the right of the tight hearts cut , the spirit develops a slightly bitter taste that slowly increases to the horrible tails smell and taste . Some describe it as damp socks , cardboard , wet dog etc .

The above process is typical from a Pot still and as you can see , there is a lot of discarded stuff that is not suitable for Making Gin .
(Don’t throw it out , keep saving it and one day when you get a reflux still you will have gallons and gallons of good stuff right there )


This is where a reflux still comes into its own . It will concentrate all the heads into maybe the first 2 or three jars and the tails into the last 2 or three jars . The Hearts cut will then be a massive 25 out of 30 totally clean product compared to the 8 out of 30 that you might typically keep on a Pot still that still aren’t the cleanest you could want .

(Pics from my topic about making better cuts
viewtopic.php?p=7500094#p7500094 )

[Turbo6ta]

Thanks 'Yummyrum'