Thor Hammers still with lm and vm.

[Norway]

Hi! Is there anybody here who have any experience with this kind of still? I'm close to buying one As i see it this must be the ultimate still for us hobby shiners who are into clean neutral spirits. Polish company who makes this.
Dreaming about the Thor Elite 76 mm.
Cheers from Norway

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

It's just a reflux still with a funny horizontal reflux condenser.

[Salt Must Flow]

Anyone could make a better one if they use Tri-Clamp Ferrules instead of flanges like they do. Instead of that flanged sight glass you could use a Tri-Clamp Sight Glass which gives you a 360 degree view. Theirs only gives you a little round window to see through. Flanges, gaskets, nuts and bolts is not a modern design. They're way over a decade behind.

I suspect the ONLY thing their horizontal reflux condenser has in common with a "Thor's Hammer" is that it is horizontal. It looks like it's just a single or double wound copper coil. Thor's Hammer has many tubes like a shotgun or dephlegmator running horizontally and it's construction is MUCH more elaborate. Anyone can wind a coil and do what they did. There's really nothing special going on there.

Stainless steel gate valves are inexpensive, readily available these days so there's no reason to to use a ball valve for the VM take-off. I know people have used ball valves, but gate valves are extremely precise, repeatable and more convenient.

Most people here who have built a VM/LM combo still has ditched the LM and prefers to only use it as a VM still. There has only been a few times where I kinda wished I had a LM module to add and it was only so that I could measure what the actual reflux ratio is rather than rely on other people's math to estimate/calculate it. Other than that, VM all the way.

Their startup process is surprisingly silly. They heat-up the boiler, deliberately flood the column with too much power THEN turn the power down until the flooding stops. You would be better off heating the boiler up until vapor starts to rise up the column THEN reduce to normal operating power. Vapor will rise, hit the reflux condenser then you can allow it to stabilize for at least 10 min (or longer) before taking off Foreshots. There's no sense in flooding and destabilizing the column.

[LWTCS]

Feels a little spammy

[Bolverk]

Feels a little spammy

Very

[Saltbush Bill]

There seems to be a lot of built in marketing hype , it really wont do anything that any good home built reflux column cant do. The plans are here on this forum to build such stills.
There are things shown in that youtube clip that would not be condoned by this forum, things such as the plastic takeoff tube and the storing of alcohol in plastic containers.

[bunny]

Hi Norway ,

Most of my colleagues here at "HD" are not knowledgeable in OLM, OVM, OOM.
Those that are remain quiet for their own reasons.
There are better examples of what you are looking for on the "black" and the "white" forums from Poland.

Unless you are truly confined by ceiling height, you will probably be happier with an OOM under an aabratek type head with a 20cm or more packed column over the OOM and a substantial (150cm) packed lower column.

I have a 2" stainless home built rig that makes me very happy .

good luck,
bunny

[Yummyrum]

To be honest , I don’t think its a bad looking setup . (Can’t comment in price because I don’t know the currency)

I do agree that tri-clamps are a better option . I see the 2” version has flanges but the 3” has tri-clamps .

Its all copper and has SPP . Can’t argue with that .
As mentioned , the Thor head advantage is saving height , otherwise , a standard vertical RC would do the same job .

Regarding Thors Hammer , it has been around for at least 20years . Although it is more common to use horizontal tubes in a crossflow style , many have been built with coils in them . Both work .

Personally , I think it would run better on low wines than wash , but hey , what ever . That’s probably why they keep fucking with the take-off rate throughout the run . Run low-wines in there and there is really no need ….. and the product is cleaner .

As far as OVM , I’ve never done it so I can’t comment on whether it truely makes things better .But certainly normal O’l VM is the way to go IMO . So many reflux stills on the market are CM with a touchy defleg that in most cases are less than adequate for the job . It is almost impossible to buy a VM off the shelf . On that point , this is refreshing .

I think they are wrong suggesting switching to LM and stripping out tails . Seriously , who wants that stinky mank in the still . As soon as tails are detected , switch off and let them all drain back to the boiler . Why bother collecting a stinky 150mls of shite that you would sniff and dump before you would ever reuse it .

I agree the 3” version would be the way to go having run a slow 2” LM/VM . Note the use of 2x 2kw elements ( 3 on the 100l version)
Consideration needs to be made about available electricity .

I’d rather build one , but if that wasn’t an option , I think these are maybe the pick of the reflux stills on the market .

[Norway]

Thanks for all the answers I'm new to this forum and need to learn more how to navigate myself in here and please forgive my bad english. It's not my first language.
I really want to try to build my VM and there was someone who wrote there is plans how to build them here?
Where can i find them?
One of the reasons why i want to go for the thors Hammer design is to save space. Low ceilings in my house (built in 1900)
Copper is expensive and hard to get here so i might need to order it from China. Is it possible do that kind of build without welding? Is it ok to mix stainless steel and copper?

[jonnys_spirit]

There are a number of plans here with sections of the forum dedicated to various builds. Tons of info. You may need to dig in a bit and research.

You can build a CCVM (condenser controlled vapor management) column with off the shelf triclamp parts like spools, elbows, sightglass, etc without soldering or welding... Some easy'ish plumbing style soldering is also very helpful for instance to fabricate a simple 3/4 over 1/2 liebig product condenser from hardware store parts. Soldering stainless and copper is a little heavier lift but with silver solder, a specific liquid flux, and a mapp torch you can do that too. Settling on tri-clamp interconnects of components makes everything very modular for running pot still, reflux column, plates, thumper, shotgun or liebig product condenser or even a coiled worm in a flake stand..

Some components to consider:
Heat - Electric heating element and power controller, and/or gas, fire.
Boiler
Packed Column
Plated Column
Riser and sight glass
Reflux condenser or deflegmator
Product condenser - Liebig, Shotgun, Worm.

Lots of folks modify a beer keg with triclamp ports for their hot water heating element fired boiler or purchase a dedicated boiler. The 15g keg size is ideal for home distilling quantities but many folks use smaller (like 8g) or even up to 26g for commercially available pre-built product that you can order. The 13g milk can boiler is also pretty popular as something you can order with various triclamp ports - ready to use (after the cleaning protocol).
CCVM packed column is pretty straightforward to order the parts to assemble it.
Liebig product condenser can be built from hardware store parts.

Hope that's helpful..

Cheers,
jonny

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

To be honest , I don’t think its a bad looking setup . (Can’t comment in price because I don’t know the currency)

Current exchange rate puts it about $975, USD. Seems like a lot of money for what you get, but that would make a killer build budget. You guys know me, I'm on the build side of the fence. It's fun!

Rusty

[Yummyrum]

Thanks for rhe conversion Rusty . OK , so thats $1500 AUD . Yup , thats bloody expensive then ….. and as you say , a darn good build budget

So getting back to making it modular .
The requirement I’m hearing is that height is a limiting factor and 3” is preferred over 2” . So really , CCVM is off the table . A CM would also require a Defleg , again thats extra height and probably the worst style of head IMO .

That leaves making it an LM or a VM under a Thors hammer style Reflux condenser . I recon that one could be made out of tri-clamp tee with a small section either side and a coil in one end . The ends of the coil pass through holes in an end cap , the far end cap has a vent hole drilled in . So as far as DIY , so far is just soldering the seal around the holes in the end cap and winding a coil . I’d recon a single coil of 3/16” copper would piss it in .

I believe there are tri-clamp LM takeoff modules available off the shelf however Stevebroady posted a cool DIY version a few weeks ago that made a slant plate boka out of a SS module requiring no cutting

[shadylane]

I think there's better designs on the market or that can be built.
Nothing wrong with a hammer reflux condenser when available height is limited, but having a site glass, with both VM and LM take off adds unneeded height that would be better used for the packed column.
I'd recommend getting a still with tri-clamp fittings instead of bolt together flanges. The way the flanges are made it's going to bend and leak the first time they are tightened too far and the keg didn't even have a tri-clamp welded on top of it.

[Yummyrum]

Here is a link to a pic of a thors hammer LM still head that a mate made . Sure it’s copper and he did a lot of custom cutting and joining but it’s a good design . He angled the two ends of the hammer , but its not essential . A SS tee would work .
viewtopic.php?p=7720488#p7720488

[Yummyrum]

Sorry about the shite sketch but I think you could make a VM still out of a few SS tri-clamp off the shelf bits . Apart from the Copper coil and end plate detail , wouldn't require much effort . I have seen coils available attached to an end plate but I think they were only in 2” .

IMG_2431.jpeg (19.41 KiB) Viewed 214 times

If going for SS reflux still , you would ideally need to use copper scrubbers rather than SPP .

[shadylane]

That's a good hammer and VM design Yummy. Short, simple and can be built with only a drill.
For copper, throw a handful of wadded up copper mesh in the boiler and lower part of the column.

[Yummyrum]

That's a good hammer and VM design Yummy. Short, simple and can be built with only a drill.
For copper, throw a handful of wadded up copper mesh in the boiler and lower part of the column.

You are right Shady , I was thinking it would need to be soldered , but absolutely no need . Heck , whats the point when the other end has a hole drilled in it anyway .

Yes you are probably right about the Copper mesh at the bottom . It would provide enough copper and still allow plenty of room for more efficient SPP on top

[Salt Must Flow]

The reflux condenser could technically use a 90 elbow instead of a Tee. An elbow would shift the weight of the reflux condenser to one side, but it is doable and would probably use less fittings too.