4" VM Build

[Salt Must Flow]

I just updated the reflux condenser housing with a longer one. The original one was 12" and the new one is 14-1/4". I believe the shorter one suspended the reflux condenser too close to the vapor take-off. It seemed to require that I run the reflux condenser hot (slow water flow) otherwise the take-off rate would drop. This should fix that and make it not finicky with water flow which is the way it should be.

Welded 07.jpg

[Salt Must Flow]

It turns out that I was operating this still incorrectly. I was trying to operate this 4” VM at twice the power and twice the take-off rate of my 3” VM. That was a poor assumption on my part because 4” Tri-Clamp does NOT have twice the area of 3”. It’s actually a bit less. I was also using larger packing just like most people recommend. I decided to start over from scratch thanks to Yummyrum. On multiple occasions Yummyrum has said that when you scale up in column diameter, the smaller packing should work in the larger diameter column just as it did in the smaller column if all things are proportional. For instance, if the column IS twice the area then you should be able to operate at twice the power and take-off rate with the same size packing that was in the smaller diameter column.

3” Tri-Clamp – VM Still:
ID 2.87"
Cross Sectional Area 6.4692 sq”
Max Power 2750W (50% power) using 5500W element
Max Take-Off Rate 3.2 LPH

4” Tri-Clamp has a cross sectional area of 11.5450 sq” which is 1.7846 times more than 3”.
Below I scaled EVERYTHING up by 1.7846.

4” Tri-Clamp – VM Still:
ID 3.834"
Cross Sectional Area 11.5450 sq”
Max Power 4950W (90% power) using 5500W element
Max Take-Off Rate 5.35 LPH

I loaded the 4” column with the Lava Rock I sized for my 3” column (6mm-9mm). I operated it at 4950W 90% power throughout the entire run. Everything went as smooth as butter and functioned just as it did with my 3" VM. I was also getting 96.5% ABV using a Precision Spirit Hydrometer throughout the entire run.

I also moved the Centering Plate back to where I originally drew it in my very first post. In this location it caused the take-off rate to be noticeably higher with less turns of the gate valve. I suppose in this location the gate valve can take advantage of the slightly higher pressure that the plate creates.

4 Inch VM Head 01.jpg

Centering Plate 03.jpg

Thank you Yummyrum, you were right! I wasted a good deal of money on larger Lava Rock, Hydroton and lots of time doing things wrong to FINALLY realize I ONLY had to scale up my power & take-off rates proportional to the cross sectional area of the columns.

[Salt Must Flow]

To help keep my water pressure more consistent during spirit runs, I added one of these water pressure regulators. I have to crank up the psi or remove it during stripping runs though. One day I may install a bypass to make it more convenient.

Water Pressure Regulator.jpg

Just for fun I added one of those handy dandy flow meters with a bypass leading to the reflux condenser. The incorporated needle valve is the best of all valves I've ever tried. It is extremely precise and has a very wide range of adjustment. I still monitor the water temp and set a temp alarm at 145F, but it is nice to be able to see what the flow rate is and it makes tuning the flow easier.

Water Meter 01.jpg

Water Meter 02.jpg

[Yummyrum]

Good to hear you have cracked the beast SMF .
You’ve inspired me to get mine cracking again .

[Salt Must Flow]

I finally got around to replacing all of my cheap, crappy 4" Oak Stills Clamps with proper clamps. A guy I know who works at a large poultry plant surprised me with six 4" clamps after seeing how crappy my Oak Stills clamps were. He was laughing while handling them. He didn't know such cheap clamps existed (nor I before I bought them). Even when fully tightened, you can pull the tension knob away from the clamp with one finger causing the clamp to open up. They're down right dangerous garbage. These normal clamps are SO MUCH appreciated.

The Oak Stills clamps are so light and chintzy, they feel like you're handling a pot metal Matchbox car. Standard clamps are obviously way more solid, thicker and MUCH heavier.

4in Clamp Comparison 01.jpg

4in Clamp Comparison 02.jpg

4in Clamp Comparison 03.jpg

4in Clamp Comparison 04.jpg

4in Clamp Comparison 05.jpg

[Yummyrum]

Christ , they really are a piece of shit SMF.
That last pic where you have showed the cross section clearly shows that the “copier” had absolutely no comprehension about how they work

IMG_2536.jpeg

You’ve got a good mate there BTW

[Saltbush Bill]

Is it only their clamps that are rubbish or the stills as well?

[Salt Must Flow]

Is it only their clamps that are rubbish or the stills as well?

I have no idea about their stills. Their parts, gaskets, packaging are excellent and meet every expectation. My only gripe is their clamps. I really wish they had normal/standard clamps for sale even at a higher price. I did my best to show the difference and describe them, but it's almost comical how light duty they are. What's scary is that I can't tell from a website or an advertisement whether clamps are cheap China garbage or normal/standard quality. Maybe you can only tell due to their cheap price.

[Bolverk]

Man, wait till you start playing to the ones with 2 bolts... talk about beefy

[Salt Must Flow]

Christ , they really are a piece of shit SMF.
That last pic where you have showed the cross section clearly shows that the “copier” had absolutely no comprehension about how they work

IMG_2536.jpeg

You’ve got a good mate there BTW

Oh damn, you're right! I never noticed that they weren't even tapered

[Roo]

Is it only their clamps that are rubbish or the stills as well?

I have a still on the way so can give my newbie opinion soon.

Separately, I have samples of heavy duty three segment clamps coming from Alibaba from a company I have bought from before. Based on the spec they certainly are heavier than the ones that were provided with other parts from Oakstills that got delivered via DHL.

[OtisT]

Roo, be sure to let us know how you like those new three segment clamps. I was thinking of getting a few to try also. I have a few 4’ connections that require more than a fair amount of tightening down to stop some minor leaking. (Maybe I have a spool with a slight warp, a bad gasket, or something else.). I’m hoping the three piece clamp will do a better job of keeping that leaking under control. To stop it now I’m tightening a few connections more than I think I should be.

[The Booze Pipe]

Roo, be sure to let us know how you like those new three segment clamps. I was thinking of getting a few to try also. I have a few 4’ connections that require more than a fair amount of tightening down to stop some minor leaking. (Maybe I have a spool with a slight warp, a bad gasket, or something else.). I’m hoping the three piece clamp will do a better job of keeping that leaking under control. To stop it now I’m tightening a few connections more than I think I should be.

If you're using the PTFE triclamp gakset give those a real good look. Maybe bend them slightly to look for cracks; I've noticed they do fail over time, or if it gets a piece of grit on it, it'll leak.

[The Booze Pipe]

Is it only their clamps that are rubbish or the stills as well?

I have no idea about their stills. Their parts, gaskets, packaging are excellent and meet every expectation. My only gripe is their clamps. I really wish they had normal/standard clamps for sale even at a higher price. I did my best to show the difference and describe them, but it's almost comical how light duty they are. What's scary is that I can't tell from a website or an advertisement whether clamps are cheap China garbage or normal/standard quality. Maybe you can only tell due to their cheap price.

Is it only their clamps that are rubbish or the stills as well?

Is it only their clamps that are rubbish or the stills as well?

I have a still on the way so can give my newbie opinion soon.

Separately, I have samples of heavy duty three segment clamps coming from Alibaba from a company I have bought from before. Based on the spec they certainly are heavier than the ones that were provided with other parts from Oakstills that got delivered via DHL.

I have been using an Oak Stills 26 gallon jacketed stainless with copper dome top for about six months now. It's really a beautiful piece of work with a couple minor oversights.

It's a bit out of level, which I wouldn't mind at all if it leaned toward the 2" drain valve, but it leans more off to the "side". I asked for swivel castors and got two swivel and one fixed. Partly due to my lack of specifying what I wanted exactly. But the castors are undersized for that vessel, and the one fixed castor makes it very awkward to move it around.
I was in touch with Peter at Oak Stills, with regular correspondence about all of the issues. But suddenly no more responses. I'll take it to my local guy to get taller legs and larger castors put on. Should be no big deal. It might even fix the level issue.

But it really is a well built boiler with good functionality. I've absolutely loved using it for stripping mash.

[Roo]

Roo, be sure to let us know how you like those new three segment clamps. I was thinking of getting a few to try also.

No worries, happy too. I can also provide the catalogue pages if you want.

It's a bit out of level, which I wouldn't mind at all if it leaned toward the 2" drain valve, but it leans more off to the "side".

This concerned me too, I have a shed (without water) that would allow for a pretty high column. So if it wasn't level it might become an issue with 3200mm total height.

The boiler I have ordered apparently has levelling feet, but even if it didn't I did consider making a skid/platform that could be levelled and also allowed a pallet trolley to be used to move it. That way I could also put a "frame" around the platform to hang plumbing, power controllers etc.

Not sure if it would work for you.

[Yummyrum]

This concerned me too, I have a shed (without water) that would allow for a pretty high column. So if it wasn't level it might become an issue with 3200mm total height.

Don’t get too worried about angle Roo .
I did some tests and it wasn’t a deal breaker .

viewtopic.php?p=7683367&sid=6a39b834866 ... 1#p7683367

IMG_2547.jpeg

[Roo]

I did some tests and it wasn’t a deal breaker .

I guess if I was full of more than 10 gallons of booze I might struggle to remain perpendicular too.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

This concerned me too, I have a shed (without water) that would allow for a pretty high column. So if it wasn't level it might become an issue with 3200mm total height.

Don’t get too worried about angle Roo .
I did some tests and it wasn’t a deal breaker .

viewtopic.php?p=7683367&sid=6a39b834866 ... 1#p7683367

IMG_2547.jpeg

That Pic!

[Bolverk]

Howd the hydro crunch do? Any deterioration of the clay?

[Salt Must Flow]

Howd the hydro crunch do? Any deterioration of the clay?

No it did not deteriorate at all that I could tell, but it didn't seem to work all that well as packing goes. Hydroton is basically just clay spheres so each piece has less surface area in comparison to Lava Rock of equal size. Hydroton is extremely buoyant (foamed clay interior/nonporous exterior shell) so it naturally wants to float in the presence of liquid in the column. Rising vapors probably aids in its buoyancy too. To keep the % ABV high it required a slower take-off rate. Marbles of equal size probably work just as well or better. Hydroton is not porous on its exterior so I suspect that ceramic spheres of equal size would have worked better because they don't float and are extremely porous. I started searching for ceramic spheres of equal or smaller size, but those are extremely expensive.

For my next run I'll be testing 1/2" ceramic rings. I have enough to fill 7' of 4" column. I suspect they will work really well for a 4" or larger column. I have a good amount of Feints I could run. I also have approx 5 gal I can re-run from my last Spirit Run. I look forward to trying this soon.

Ceramic Rings.jpg

[Tammuz]

Why don't you like the hydroton? Besides a long soak and many rinses it seems to work well. So cheap and light, we have some just used for neutrals, rum,.
I see you replied before I posted, ours is in 3 in pipe. Even with just 18" of hydroton with a 12" riser above I don't see any floaters during a stripping run for rum. That gives us a 10-15% abv increase. Tried one and two plates but got more flavor with hydroton.

[Salt Must Flow]

Why don't you like the hydroton? Besides a long soak and many rinses it seems to work well. So cheap and light, we have some just used for neutrals, rum,.
I see you replied before I posted, ours is in 3 in pipe. Even with just 18" of hydroton with a 12" riser above I don't see any floaters during a stripping run for rum. That gives us a 10-15% abv increase. Tried one and two plates but got more flavor with hydroton.

Some packing appears to do ok in relatively short sections, but once you start getting into 5', 6' or 7' lengths, it starts to show its limits. Significantly smaller Lava Rock (previously sized for my 3") worked much better, higher % ABV and a higher take-off rate, but almost on the verge of starting to flood at 4950W.

[Bolverk]

I know a lot of pros use those ceramic rings, but they aint cheap

[Salt Must Flow]

I know a lot of pros use those ceramic rings, but they aint cheap

This is the best price I've come across so far. 5 lbs is just a bit shy of 1 gallon volume.

5 lbs $16.98
10 lbs 28.99
20 lbs $57.98

[higgins]

I bought 5 lbs of ceramic rings (sold as pool filter media) maybe 3-4 yrs ago when I built my 2" CCVM (now VM).
With 42" of column filled using about 2/3 of the rings I barely got 92%.
I broke them with a hammer (2-5 pcs each) and was able to add more rings and got 95%. I was OK with that.



I did just buy 40 SS scrubbies to try out on my next neutral run, probably early in the new year.

[Bolverk]

This is the best price I've come across so far. 5 lbs is just a bit shy of 1 gallon volume.

5 lbs $16.98
10 lbs 28.99
20 lbs $57.98

Thats a good price thanks, and thanks for the volume measurement, I thought id need more.

So whats our best guess on the HETP on these ceramic rings?

[Salt Must Flow]

This is the best price I've come across so far. 5 lbs is just a bit shy of 1 gallon volume.

5 lbs $16.98
10 lbs 28.99
20 lbs $57.98

Thats a good price thanks, and thanks for the volume measurement, I thought id need more.

So whats our best guess on the HETP on these ceramic rings?

I'm not sure yet, but I'll do my best to test it repeatedly. I have some PMs with haggy to help me with calculating HETP. Once I test the ceramic rings I hope to see how it compares with data I've collected on other types of packing.

[Bolverk]

Cool thanks, im thinking ill add about 12" of these in my column to help up the proof of my top draw

[Tammuz]

You can get pall rings or ceramic packing from Alibaba fairly cheap,ask to buy samples.
I soaked my round HydroFarms hydroton 3/8"-7/16" in pH 4.8 water for a week then rinsed with 5x water. Never saw any float up into my site glass at the top of a 6' column.

[Bolverk]

Hey Salt,

heads up on these rings.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B074T49J ... asin_title

They seem to be of good quality and I couldn't find any broken ones