Returning High Proof Back To A Hot Boiler ? ? ?

[Salt Must Flow]

While doing a Spirit Run with my VM column I will often do some tests, collect some product and need to return it back to the boiler. Normally I would turn the power off, insert a funnel in the hole over top of my reflux condenser and pour the product down through the packed column. Since I upgraded to a 4" VM column, the top of the reflux condenser is too high and too close the ceiling for it to be reasonable to continue doing it that way. I could move the still over a couple feet where the ceiling is higher and get a 10' step ladder, but I'm considering other safe methods of returning product back to a hot boiler.

This is the top of my boiler. I have a 2" NPT and a 3/4" NPT threaded ports with plugs.

Boiler 10.png

I'm considering making a relatively small manometer out of copper pipe with a stainless funnel soldered to the top and attach it over top of a ball valve connected to the 3/4" port. I'd fill the manometer with water. Open the ball valve, pour the product into the funnel, pour some water into the funnel then close the ball valve. I'm thinking the manometer should keep hot vapor from blasting out of the boiler, but allow me to pour product back into the boiler. Does this sound safe? Any better ideas?

Is a manometer even necessary? Maybe just a ball valve with a funnel attached to it? Just pour product into the funnel, crack open the ball valve and close it quickly when all the product flows through. Rolling around some ideas in my head.

[SW_Shiner]

i've seen a similar thing done to allow 'shooting' the thumper. Usually I see a sight glass or length of pipe attached with a valve. When used for shooting stuff into the thumper, you have the valve closed while filling the vessel. Then the open end can be sealed, and the contents let in with the valve. And not getting any product out at the same time.

[shadylane]

I've scalded my hand before while pouring high abv alcohol back into a boiler that's still hot.
The alcohol flashed into vapor and was looking for a way out, unfortunately my hand was in the way.
Now I take my time and pour slowly.

[SW_Shiner]

Something like a hop bong, but high proof safe.

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[Yummyrum]

I've scalded my hand before while pouring high abv alcohol back into a boiler that's still hot.
The alcohol flashed into vapor and was looking for a way out, unfortunately my hand was in the way.
Now I take my time and pour slowly.

Same Shady .
Instant steam burn .

I recon diluted back to 30% it would not be a problem , but haven’t needed to confirm .

I recon your mano idea probably might work SMF as having water in the trap and flushing it through with more water would help with the dilution .

[Saltbush Bill]

Its still going to be looking for a way out however you put it back into the boiler.
Not getting a burnt hand might only be the first of the problems.

[higgins]

assuming that the amount you want to pour back is fairly small:

valve on top of boiler
some sort of container on top (like a 4" spool)
cap and clamp for the container (spool).

with valve closed, pour product into spool.
cap and clamp the spool
open the valve
liquid drains without an opening to atmosphere

close valve
repeat if necessary

[shadylane]

The only time I'm adding alcohol to a hot still is when experimenting and I want to keep the same ABV in the pot.
Obviously, the power would need to be turned off and have no pressure in the boiler before opening the valve.

[Salt Must Flow]

Reservoir over a ball valve sounds like the most simple solution.

[Yummyrum]

Taking Shady's idea and extend tube to below surface .

funnel.png

[shadylane]

I thought about that but if there's any pressure the scalding hot boiler charge could blowout when the valve is opened.

[Windy City]

IMG_8345.jpeg

I have this on top of my boiler.
I take the cap off the top and open the top 2” butterfly valve and pour in whatever I want. Then I close the top valve and open the bottom one to safely dump into the boiler.

[Windy City]

I think the nipple in between valves is about 8” long
If I have to dump more then it will hold I just repeat the process.
I can do this without any danger even during distillation temps.

[Salt Must Flow]

I'm considering all things proposed. I'm even considering tapping into the side of the column at a reasonable height to pour product back through and down the packing. That might be the 2nd best solution to pouring it from the very top of the column.

I might just think about this for a while and eventually end up moving my still over a few feet (where the ceiling is higher) and eventually get a 10' step ladder so I can continue to pour it down through the reflux condenser I have a couple extension ladders. I could secure one against the roof truss instead of getting a step ladder.

Still just rolling around ideas and considering options.

[Windy City]

I'm considering all things proposed. I'm even considering tapping into the side of the column at a reasonable height to pour product back through and down the packing. That might be the 2nd best solution to pouring it from the very top of the column.

I might just think about this for a while and eventually end up moving my still over a few feet (where the ceiling is higher) and eventually get a 10' step ladder so I can continue to pour it down through the reflux condenser I have a couple extension ladders. I could secure one against the roof truss instead of getting a step ladder.

Still just rolling around ideas and considering options.

That all just sounds dangerous

[BigSwede]

Depending on the volume returned, my vote for simplest and safest is the Windy City setup. 2" NPT --> Valve --> section of 2" san pipe --> Valve.

A funnel of some sort at the top would be nice, but you should be able to pour through the top valve. The obvious caveat is that one must be methodical and thoughtful to throw the valves in the correct order.

[Button]

We call them ‘shot pots’ at work. A small apparatus that can be used to add a liquid to a vessel. A container that has a valve on each end. Basically like what others have illustrated above.

[NorthWoodsAb]

I'm considering all things proposed. I'm even considering tapping into the side of the column at a reasonable height to pour product back through and down the packing. That might be the 2nd best solution to pouring it from the very top of the column.

I might just think about this for a while and eventually end up moving my still over a few feet (where the ceiling is higher) and eventually get a 10' step ladder so I can continue to pour it down through the reflux condenser I have a couple extension ladders. I could secure one against the roof truss instead of getting a step ladder.

Still just rolling around ideas and considering options.

If you want to return to top of column why not run a line to a fitting and use a transfer pump from floor level, you could run a small amount of water at end to displace any ethanol from the line minimizing waste. Otherwise the spool with 2 valves is your safest option.
A 10 foot ladder adding product to a hot column has several risks attached with it.

[Salt Must Flow]

I finally decided to move forward with this modification. I drilled a hole in the Tee and soldered a stainless steel half coupling to it.

4 in Tee 03.jpg

I dry fit this 1/2" stainless ball valve and stainless 90 sweep elbow.

4 in Tee 04.jpg

The plastic funnel is just a placeholder for a stainless steel funnel. I was hoping there would be more room, but there's hardly any. The top of this red funnel is 4" dia. It's just wedged in there at an angle. I may remove the half coupling, grind it so it would tilt angled outward and provide more room for an appropriate funnel. I searched, but couldn't find any stainless offset funnels. I don't want to have to make a copper funnel.

4 in Tee 05.jpg

[Salt Must Flow]

I ended up grinding the half coupling again so the valve tilts out away from the tee to make room for a decent size stainless funnel. Once everything is absolutely finalized, I'll probably solder the elbow into the half coupling to make it rock solid and less potential for leaks.

4 in Tee 05.jpg

[Yummyrum]

My OCD is triggering with that angled fitting .
I think I would have put the valve horizontal with an M-M nipple to get the extra spacing .

[Salt Must Flow]

My OCD is triggering with that angled fitting .
I think I would have put the valve horizontal with an M-M nipple to get the extra spacing .

I know. The more I look at it ... it just doesn't look right. Maybe a full length coupling would give me enough space for a decent size funnel. I might have one.

[BALDR]

What is the purpose of pouring a hi abv back into the boiler?

[Salt Must Flow]

What is the purpose of pouring a hi abv back into the boiler?

Like if you're testing different take-off rates and/or power inputs, collect data and find that the %ABV drops. You can pour it back down the column and continue.

I used to pour it down through the very top, down through the reflux condenser, but now it's unreasonably high. I tapped through the tee so it is at a height that isn't inconvenient.

[Windy City]

I don't want to pee on your parade but this is still a dangerous option.
There is a reason why on my setup there are two valves.
When dumping high proof back into the boiler it will flash steam because it's boiling point is much lower.
I can hear it when I load my 2" "injector" and open the bottom valve to dump 'Pmmhf" it is flash steaming.
with your setup that flash can and probably will blow it right back out of your funnel.
Please be safe.

[Salt Must Flow]

I don't want to pee on your parade but this is still a dangerous option.
There is a reason why on my setup there are two valves.
When dumping high proof back into the boiler it will flash steam because it's boiling point is much lower.
I can hear it when I load my 2" "injector" and open the bottom valve to dump 'Pmmhf" it is flash steaming.
with your setup that flash can and probably will blow it right back out of your funnel.
Please be safe.

I've poured back very small amounts to a gallon (or more) in the past and nothing has ever blown back out. Any vapor that 'flash steams' evidently condenses due to the cooler packing.

[Saltbush Bill]

I don't want to pee on your parade but this is still a dangerous option.
There is a reason why on my setup there are two valves.
When dumping high proof back into the boiler it will flash steam because it's boiling point is much lower.
I can hear it when I load my 2" "injector" and open the bottom valve to dump 'Pmmhf" it is flash steaming.

This is exactly what I've been thinking all along, not a good idea at all.
Anyone whos ever poured high abv back into a boiler that is already at or close to operating temp knows what the result is.
Dont be supprised if it blows your funnel right out of the still.
I also think it's setting an extremely bad example for newbs who could unwittingly try a similar thing.

[SW_Shiner]

I don't want to pee on your parade but this is still a dangerous option.
There is a reason why on my setup there are two valves.
When dumping high proof back into the boiler it will flash steam because it's boiling point is much lower.
I can hear it when I load my 2" "injector" and open the bottom valve to dump 'Pmmhf" it is flash steaming.
with your setup that flash can and probably will blow it right back out of your funnel.
Please be safe.

I've poured back very small amounts to a gallon (or more) in the past and nothing has ever blown back out. Any vapor that 'flash steams' evidently condenses due to the cooler packing.

I think there's a bit of a difference between dumping on top of the packing versus under it. Pouring in the top gives it time to disperse through the packing, so less chance of it causing a pressure build-up. And possibly a lower chance to flash boil. But dumping it under the packing, you risk the chance that your funnel is the path of least resistance, when a large amount flash boils at once.

[Yummyrum]

Out of interest , how many mls are you expecting to pour back each time Salt ?

[BALDR]

Trade in some form your vodka for some butterfly valves. I'm sure you have materials for a spool. You could also use this system to add fruit or other flavors after the heads are gone.
Burns hurt more than broken bones.