Commercial spirits and Caramel E150

[MooseMan]

I'm sure most of you guys are aware of the use of spirit caramel (E150) used in commercial spirits to keep colour consistency, and sometimes to make spirits look more "Aged" than they are.

Well I've regularly thought that I could detect it in a commercial drink, and have several times been convinced that said drink would be better without it.

Last night I had a Rum flight in a bar, consisting of;
Wray & Nephew overproof
El Dorado 12yr
Appleton 12yr
Kingston 62

I also had a Brugal 1888 separately.

Whilst all of them were really good, and all had a different taste of course, there was a definite layer of identical flavour in both the Appleton and the El Dorado, that I'm convinced is E150.
If it was in the Brugal I couldn't taste it for sure, and it was most certainly not in either of the white Rums.

I might be wrong here, and it may just be a flavour component of older aged spirit, but I've also tasted it in Bourbons that clearly have been coloured.

I have a bottle of E150 caramel, and I've added some to experimental batches of spirit. Despite being classed as a colourant, it definitely has a taste of its own.

Opinions very much welcomed.

[Homesweethome]

It seems that there are very many different kinds of caramel:

[tjsc5f]

I might be wrong here, and it may just be a flavour component of older aged spirit, but I've also tasted it in Bourbons that clearly have been coloured.

Legally, bourbons can't be coloured with additives. They can't legally have any additives other than water(besides what they pick up naturally from a new charred oak barrel).

I'm not saying everyone follows the rules, just saying unless it came from a shady source, it probably wasn't coloured.

[PalCabral]

Legally, bourbons can't be coloured with additives. They can't legally have any additives other than water(besides what they pick up naturally from a new charred oak barrel).

I'm not saying everyone follows the rules, just saying unless it came from a shady source, it probably wasn't coloured.

Moose is talking about Rums, tjsc5f, the most irregulated spirit there is. Very few spirits are as regulated and protected as American spirits.

As far as I know, Diamond Distilleries in Guyana, the producers of El Dorado, have stopped using additives in their rums, Moose, since a few years back, However, I believe this was about sweetners, maybe not so much about E150. What do I know?

[tjsc5f]

Moose is talking about Rums, tjsc5f, the most irregulated spirit there is. Very few spirits are as regulated and protected as American spirits.

Moose said he tasted it in bourbon that was coloured, that is what I was responding to.

[Yummyrum]

Moose said he tasted it in bourbon that was coloured, that is what I was responding to.

Interesting video above . At the 5.00 mark , O’l mate talks about a Nutty flavour found in Caramel that is also found in Bourbons that have been aged in Oak barrels due to the Char
Sorry I couldn’t pick the exact word he said due to me nit being familiar with his accent .

[SW_Shiner]

Sorry I couldn’t pick the exact word he said due to me nit being familiar with his accent .

Diacetyl. I believe it is one of the esters that is heavily chased in rums?

[shadylane]

Legally, bourbons can't be coloured with additives. They can't legally have any additives other than water(besides what they pick up naturally from a new charred oak barrel).

I'm not saying everyone follows the rules, just saying unless it came from a shady source, it probably wasn't coloured.

Did I hear my name mentioned and the word rules in the same breath.
In my shed, we don't need no stinking rules.

[PalCabral]

Moose is talking about Rums, tjsc5f, the most irregulated spirit there is. Very few spirits are as regulated and protected as American spirits.

Moose said he tasted it in bourbon that was coloured, that is what I was responding to.

Indeed you are correct. I need to get reading glasses, I think. You’re correct with the comment on Bourbon too. No additives permitted.

[MooseMan]

Legally, bourbons can't be coloured with additives. They can't legally have any additives other than water(besides what they pick up naturally from a new charred oak barrel).

I'm not saying everyone follows the rules, just saying unless it came from a shady source, it probably wasn't coloured.

Did I hear my name mentioned and the word rules in the same breath.
In my shed, we don't need no stinking rules.

Haha nice pickup Shady!

[Yummyrum]

Sorry I couldn’t pick the exact word he said due to me nit being familiar with his accent .

Diacetyl. I believe it is one of the esters that is heavily chased in rums?

Thanks SW_shiner ,
Maybe in Rum they cheat and the addition of caramel brings it to the table for free . Whereas it occurs naturally in Bourbon and that is what Moose is picking up on .

[MooseMan]

Glad I have started an interesting conversation and it was/is primarily directed at Rums.

I added confusion by mentioning Bourbon, and made it even worse by not making it clear that I was talking about blended American whisky. I don't buy any but have been given a couple and I'm not keen, just too hot for me, but they both have that "Taste" in them.

Probably the taste has something to do with Maillard reaction, as heat is involved in the process of making the caramel, and in the process of charring barrels, both of these processes therefore are "Cooking" sugars?

[MooseMan]

Sorry I couldn’t pick the exact word he said due to me nit being familiar with his accent .

Diacetyl. I believe it is one of the esters that is heavily chased in rums?

Thanks SW_shiner ,
Maybe in Rum they cheat and the addition of caramel brings it to the table for free . Whereas it occurs naturally in Bourbon and that is what Moose is picking up on .

It might have something to do with Diacetyl, but I get a buttery flavour from that and indeed I chase it deliberately in my own rums by heating and leaving overnight the day before distilling as we've discussed.