Mash Pre Heating - Steam Adjacent Topic

[Johnnywhiskey]

I'm working through my hardware and process for my first steam mash and distillation. Thinking about the distillation end, I'd like to find a method to preheat the mash to limit the amount dilution of the mash and keep the volume lower while heating up the mash up to temp.

Right now my best idea is to use my wort chiller (copper coil) which conveniently fits in my mash steamer, and circulate the hot water from the boiler through the wort chiller in the mash while the boiler heats up. Anyone use this method? Any other ideas for preheating the mash?

Best, JW

[zach]

I've preheated mash for a 2nd strip using hot condenser water and a wort cooler in my fermenter during the first strip.

Sounds like your plan would reduce the amount of steam to warm the mash, thus you might fit a little more in the thumper and get more production per load. It's worth a try.

[Username]

I've preheated mash for a 2nd strip using hot condenser water and a wort cooler in my fermenter during the first strip.

Exactly this! It was mooseman put me on to it. I run hot and fast when stripping, I've had to take the wort chiller out when the steam starts coming off the second mash, there's a decent amount of heat to be harvested this way

[BlackStrap]

Do you have any pictures of your setup Johnnywhiskey?

[Tammuz]

You would be using energy to heat the water up then run it through copper to heat your mash. Steam would be easier. Now if you are running your boiler for a run that's another matter and easy to remedy. Plus it cools your run-off saving plants or pipes.

[Johnnywhiskey]

I've preheated mash for a 2nd strip using hot condenser water and a wort cooler in my fermenter during the first strip.

Sounds like your plan would reduce the amount of steam to warm the mash, thus you might fit a little more in the thumper and get more production per load. It's worth a try.

Yep, recovering waste heat would be ideal. I guess there still has to be a first run though to create the heat to recover. If I was doing multiple runs I would definitely do it this way. But for right now I'll probably just be doing one run at a time.

You would be using energy to heat the water up then run it through copper to heat your mash. Steam would be easier. Now if you are running your boiler for a run that's another matter and easy to remedy. Plus it cools your run-off saving plants or pipes.

I goal would be to get a head start on heating up the mash while I'm heating up my steam boiler for the stripping run. Maybe save myself adding a gallon or two of water to the mash. More mash = more low wines.

Do you have any pictures of your setup Johnnywhiskey?

I had the whole thing together a week ago and should have taken some pictures. But here are the important bits:

Fermenter/Mash Boiler and Steam injector

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Here is my steam boiler and wort chiller--fits nicely into the milk can. My plan right now for preheating is to use my brewing pump to circulate water from the boiler, through the wort chiller in the mash and back into boiler.

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And some other important bits for steam management--pressure gauge, vacuum breaker and 8psi PRV (not sure why these posted upsidedown?). The condenser and spools to connect the steam boiler with the mash boiler are not shown. There are stored away. I'll post up the whole system when I get a chance to put it together again.

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[Tammuz]

Just make a thicker mash, after your first run you'll know how much water is added and go from there. I'm too lazy to sanitize that wort chiller and then clean it after use when I'm going to use steam one way or the other. I'm not a beer maker so I don't know about your wort pumps but it would seem 190- 200° would be hard on a pump

200l barrel = more mash.

[zach]

I've have the same set up ( 88 liter milk can, similar steam wand and keg boiler)

With the steam injection going through the lid milk can you have turn off the steam to remove the lid during mashing to stir. My connection for steam injection is on the side of the milk can, but I decided not to mash in the milk can after finding it difficult to stir with the narrow opening.

I decided it's easier to mash and ferment in a 55 gallon in HDPE barrel as I can use a paddle mixer with a drill to stir during steaming to get even temperature and to mix in enzymes or malt.

I 'd recommend a sight glass between the lid of the milk can and the tee so you can see if have any solids puking toward the condenser.

[BlackStrap]

Just make a thicker mash, after your first run you'll know how much water is added and go from there. I'm too lazy to sanitize that wort chiller and then clean it after use when I'm going to use steam one way or the other. I'm not a beer maker so I don't know about your wort pumps but it would seem 190- 200° would be hard on a pump

200l barrel = more mash.

With the steam injection going through the lid milk can you have turn off the steam to remove the lid during mashing to stir. My connection for steam injection is on the side of the milk can, but I decided not to mash in the milk can after finding it difficult to stir with the narrow opening.

I decided it's easier to mash and ferment in a 55 gallon in HDPE barrel as I can use a paddle mixer with a drill to stir during steaming to get even temperature and to mix in enzymes or malt.

Both of these comments my experience are worth quoting... I have a double boiler setup that uses (2) 58 liter modified kegs. While I have mashed, fermented and distilled all in this setup. I found out like Zach that it is easier to mash and ferment in a vessel that is better suited.

When distilling through solids in the 2nd boiler I will charge the 1st boiler with a low proof stripped run (Or a fresh wash that has yet to be distilled) this then makes the 2nd boiler more like a "thumper" with a packed column on top before the vapors make their way into the condenser.

Noticed once the 2nd boiler comes up to temp, the volume "balances" out and does not fill as fast. Since this is a wash and not water, I do not need to worry about losing flavors by using water.

[Johnnywhiskey]

When I'm mashing, I'll just put an electric heating element into straight water to get it to boiling. I've had pretty good success gelatinizing by adding grains straight to boiling water--that has been my process until now. Corn can be tough, with a higher gelatinization temperature required. But even making a bourbon I see temps over 180f for an hour or more after adding the corn. Other grains do not require as high of temps. But I might need to play with the steam wand for mashing to see if that helps.

I do not worry much about about sanitization for whisky mashes. I'll use the wort chiller to get the mash down to pitching temperature--as long as the coil looks clean, no sanitizing.

Distilling side is where I'm considering pre heating. So sanitation is still not an issue. The pumps I use for brewing can handle boiling water all day long--pretty common to run them while boiling wort. Maybe my fear of adding a few gallons of steam water to my mash is unfounded, and I should go straight to steam from cold mash. But generally one of my guiding principles in this hobby has always been get as much alcohol in the boiler as possible, so less room for water. Practically, I'm not going to be able to run back-to-back stripping runs, so I cannot take advantage of recovered heat from the condenser.

On a separate thought, I would love to pump steam through my wort coil for indirect steam hearing, but for a variety of safety and logistic reasons that does not seem like a good idea,

What type of barrels do you use for mashing/fermentation? Do the plastic barrels hold up OK to the high temps? Do you scoop the mash from the fermenter to the boiler then?

Best, JW

[Tammuz]

We use 200 l plastic barrels but so far only for a sugar shine and rum washes. We haven't tried draining a rye mash thru the 2" drain, rum washes right into the boiler.

[shadylane]

We use 200 l plastic barrels but so far only for a sugar shine and rum washes. We haven't tried draining a rye mash thru the 2" drain, rum washes right into the boiler.

Don't know how much rye or corn your using, but never underestimate either's ability to plug up a drain.

[shadylane]

I'm working through my hardware and process for my first steam mash and distillation. Thinking about the distillation end, I'd like to find a method to preheat the mash to limit the amount dilution of the mash and keep the volume lower while heating up the mash up to temp.

Right now my best idea is to use my wort chiller (copper coil) which conveniently fits in my mash steamer, and circulate the hot water from the boiler through the wort chiller in the mash while the boiler heats up. Anyone use this method? Any other ideas for preheating the mash?

Best, JW

Here's one of the ways I've used to preheat the mash first then inject steam to limit dilution.
Basically, I put the mash in a thumper and put the thumper in the steam boiler.
It looks like a wonky idea, but it works, no steam is injected until the mash is completely preheated.
I can't claim the idea as my own, someone else posted a pic that intrigued me, so I reverse engineered the idea and built it.
The build began as a Bain Marie pot, but while researching, I came across the pic and decided to go that path.

[zach]

What type of barrels do you use for mashing/fermentation? Do the plastic barrels hold up OK to the high temps? Do you scoop the mash from the fermenter to the boiler then?

Best, JW

I recently used a 55 gallon HDPE barrel for mashing. Seemed to hold up to the temperature well (185 F for 3 hours). I used steam injection for heating and paddle mixer to maintain even temperature. I scooped out of the barrel into a larger fermenter (250 gallon IBC tote also HDPE) and diluted for conversion and fermentation. After fermentation I scooped again from the fermenter with clear beer to the boiler and slop to the milk can thumper.

The scooping takes less time than you think when you have a wide opening. It's more difficult scooping from the milk can after distillation.