"Cleaning Run" - Vinegar or Citric Acid

[Nagorg]

Hello,

New person here just trying to figure stuff out. For the initial cleaning run on a new still, I know the general recommendation from this forum is a 50/50 Vinegar/Water run. So I'm guessing this is what I'll hear from folks.

But I watched a Shine Shack video where the guy said he preferred to use citric acid instead of vinegar. He did say folks are opinionated on this and you can use either, but his preference was citric acid at a rate of ~2 tablespoons per gallon.

Aside from that video, I've only seen citric acid mentioned for soaking. But if it can also be used with a cleaning run, it just might be a better option IMO. It certainly may work out even cheaper than vinegar.

I personally had a bad experience with vinegar. This is my fault because I failed to break things down and rinse everything after the run. But this has me gun shy for using it again. lol A citric acid soak cleaned up the damage done by the vinegar so it naturally leaves me feeling better about using it even though I know what happened to my stuff is my bad, not the vinegar.

Anyway, is citric acid a good option for a cleaning run instead of vinegar? Pros/Cons?

[PalCabral]

I dont think it matter much whether you use citric acid or vinegar but since the purpose is to distill the vinegar water solution I dont know why you should be worried? Its not a soaking exercise.

Since European vinegar is sold in a stronger concentration than in the US I use 1 part vinegar 3 parts water, run for a good 45 minutes w/o condensing, the turn off and empty. Then a quick rinse with hot water, fill up boiler with water, mount the same components again and run a short, 15-20 minutes steam run. I always run a short steam run after using vinegar and when using citric acid. Then empty, rinse and dry. I’ve never had any issues after a steam run.

If I have to, I’d finish up with a sac run, but that’s only when I am breaking in a new still component.

[Nagorg]

I dont know why you should be worried? Its not a soaking exercise.

Thanks for the input. It's not as much of a worry as it is a "first impressions" thing. And, a curiosity.

Until that video, I'd never seen any mention of using citric acid instead of vinegar in the cleaning or "steam" run. So I thought I'd bounce the topic off this forum.

[Yummyrum]

Vinegar has a boiling point a little higher than water so with it being a weak solution …. around 5% , it easily passes through the still . Citric acid has a boiling point about 3 times higher than water , so it is very likely useless as a steam cleaner . Can’t say I have actually tried it , but it seems a futile exercise .

Soaking in Citric is very effective .

What ever you choose , immediate rinsing is mandatory . If you can give it a physical scrub afterwards , then you can rid it of any residue .

[BigSwede]

Others beat me to it. From a chemistry POV, boiling a citric acid solution will eject water steam. Citric acid salts remain in the boiler. Vinegar solution will distribute acetic acid vapors and some condensate throughout the system. I think a real necessity is a very thorough clean water rinse after the cleaning run, or vinegar will condense in nooks and crannies and possibly corrode.

If you make components yourselves, which end up full of flux and goo after soldering, I like to clean those up individually as they are built. First hot soapy water (strips dried flux), then a citric soak, followed by a short soak in a base like sodium bicarb or carbonate. One last fresh water rinse. It sounds fiddly, but something like a shotgun condenser can be cleaned up and put away in short order, and when ready to go, will be very clean.

I pickle garden peppers frequently in a vinegar/water boil, and can verify the vinegar fumes are very potent!

[Nagorg]

Related follow up question...

Now that Vinegar is the clear choice for a cleaning/steam run, what's the ideal acid percentage?

I'm asking because the stuff you buy at the supermarket is typically 5%, its already diluted down with water. If I then use 1-gallon of this and 1-gallon of water, it would be only 2.5%.

Is a 2.5% vinegar solution adequate? Or is 5% really the target here? I can buy a higher percentage "cleaning vinegar" from the Big-Box home repair shops (generally 30%) and dilute it down but it's more costly.

[PalCabral]

I think 2.5% is what you’re reaching for. 50/50 5% vinegsr or 1/4 12% vinegar (Europe). No need for a stronger solution.

The question probably more relevant is how long you shoild run it. I run for 45 mins max, but it could probably be run for a shorter time.

[Copperhead road]

Related follow up question...

Now that Vinegar is the clear choice for a cleaning/steam run, what's the ideal acid percentage?

I'm asking because the stuff you buy at the supermarket is typically 5%, its already dilute down with water. If I then use 1-gallon of this and 1-gallon of water, it would be only 2.5%.

Is a 2.5% vinegar solution adequate? Or is 5% really the target here? I can buy a higher percentage "cleaning vinegar" from the Big-Box home repair shops (generally 30%) and dilute it down but it's more costly.

i have never diluted my vinegar down, i just use about 20 L of standard white supermarket vinegar before doing my sacrificial run.

[Nagorg]

i have never diluted my vinegar down, i just use about 20 L of standard white supermarket vinegar before doing my sacrificial run.

Dang, that's a lot of vinegar! I'm assuming your standard percentage may be higher than it is in the US?

[Copperhead road]

Related follow up question...

Now that Vinegar is the clear choice for a cleaning/steam run, what's the ideal acid percentage?

I'm asking because the stuff you buy at the supermarket is typically 5%, its already dilute down with water. If I then use 1-gallon of this and 1-gallon of water, it would be only 2.5%.

Is a 2.5% vinegar solution adequate? Or is 5% really the target here? I can buy a higher percentage "cleaning vinegar" from the Big-Box home repair shops (generally 30%) and dilute it down but it's more costly.

i have never diluted my vinegar down, i just use about 20 L of standard white supermarket vinegar before doing my sacrificial run.

I am not sure abpot what percentage is, i use about 10 x 2L bottles.

[shadylane]

New person here just trying to figure stuff out. For the initial cleaning run on a new still, I know the general recommendation from this forum is a 50/50 Vinegar/Water run. So I'm guessing this is what I'll hear from folks.

Is the new still made of SS, copper or a mixture of the two?
Did you buy it and it's already spotlessly clean on the inside, or homebuilt and dirty from being welded, soldered or brazed on?

[googe]

Best cleaning run is a cheap easy wash, gives you practice doing a wash, gives you practice running the still, gives you cleaning alcohol.

[Yummyrum]

Vinegar has a boiling point a little higher than water so with it being a weak solution …. around 5% , it easily passes through the still . Citric acid has a boiling point about 3 times higher than water , so it is very likely useless as a steam cleaner .

I had this wrong .
Citric acid is a solid and dissolves in water but although it has a higher boiling point , it never leaves the boiler because it is non -volatile ,unlike vinegar .

[Yummyrum]

i have never diluted my vinegar down, i just use about 20 L of standard white supermarket vinegar before doing my sacrificial run.

Dang, that's a lot of vinegar! I'm assuming your standard percentage may be higher than it is in the US?

Our Australian White cleaning Vinegar is typically 5% acetic acid . There is double strength available recently which is labeled strangely as 8%

[PalCabral]

Dang, that's a lot of vinegar! I'm assuming your standard percentage may be higher than it is in the US?

I think you can save a buck or two next time, Copper, by diluting the vinegar with half water.

[Saltbush Bill]

Again people are over thinking things , get some vinegar, Malt Vinegar, White Vinegar, Cider Vinegar....any type......stick it in the boiler with an equal amount of water.
Crank heat up and run it hard.
Fluctuate between no condenser cooling, so that just steam is leaving the business end of the still, then hit the water to cool the condenser.....and yes what a surprise liquid will appear and it will flush the shit you don't want out.
What is flushed is stuff like machine oils from manufactured stills, things like flux from home made stills and any other unwanted gunk.
Its that simple , it doesn't need to turn into a 100 page thread.
Ok I'm grumpy cause of a sore back , but that covers it.
Do it and its done.

[googe]

Give sbb a back rub yummy, I ain't doing it.

[Yummyrum]

Give sbb a back rub yummy, I ain't doing it.

Fair call goo , you did it last time .

[Nagorg]

Thanks folks!

I feel I've been set straight on this now. Thanks for playing!

[Copperhead road]

Give sbb a back rub yummy, I ain't doing it.

Fair call goo , you did it last time .

i need one also after 3 major back operations... a sore back can be sooooo debilitating.