Potato Vodka with Reflux Still

[jpettymore]

Hey guys,

Question for doing potato vodka with a reflux still. AI is telling me I shouldn't run in reflux mode during the stripping run because it drags along too much nasty stuff I don't want in for the spirit run. I've already done a lot this way and the final product is alright but definitely has some tastes with it that tell me it's not grey goose. I figured if I wanted that I could just run it through carbon filtering. But would it be noticeably cleaner if I ran in pot still mode for stripping?

I don't believe AI all the time. After all it was telling us to glue pepperoni to the pizza

[Copperhead road]

AI is not tolerated on this forum. It is taboo.

[Saltbush Bill]

Get your advice from a more reliable source.
Just as a matter of interest research what percentage of the world's Vodka is made from Potatoes.
Which in turn can make you ask yourself why?

[PalCabral]

I believe that your flavors in your potato vodka will be better, both cleaner and more flavorsome from the potato perspective, if you stripp your mash first, then run it a second time through the reflux column in a spirit run.

[Yummyrum]

I believe that your flavors in your potato vodka will be better, both cleaner and more flavorsome from the potato perspective, if you stripp your mash first, then run it a second time through the reflux column in a spirit run.

What he said .
A pot still strip followed by a reflux spirit run always makes the cleanest Spirit
But so be fare , I have never run spuds .

Also agree with Salty . Vodka has this connection to spuds . But most Vodka AFAIK is not made from them . It is more a street rumour . Yes , when Grain was hard to get hold of , any sort of starch was worth making Vodka from , Spuds even . But it’s a hard way to make Vodka .

[tommysb]

But it really does make a GREAT vodka imho.

Keep an eye out for this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luksusowa

or Chopin potato

drink side by side with a cereal vodka, and you will understand

[Saltbush Bill]

Not arguing that point tommysb, just that most sources say that only about 3% is made from potatoes.

[PalCabral]

Also agree with Salty . Vodka has this connection to spuds . But most Vodka AFAIK is not made from them . It is more a street rumour . Yes , when Grain was hard to get hold of , any sort of starch was worth making Vodka from , Spuds even . But it’s a hard way to make Vodka .

In Scandinavia, potatoes was very much the base of Brännvin, which was the local name of clean white spirits, before everyone jumped on the "Vodka" moniker. In Norway, it continues to be the most used raw material for clean spirit but 100% of it goes into being the base for Aquavit, extremely little of it hits the streets as "potato" vodka or brännvin. The Polish Baltic sea cost is also renowned for it's potato wodka.

I think the reason for why potatos are not common anymore as a raw material for Vodka is how expensive is is to produce. In the 1800's, potato was the cheapest thing there was, now wheat is the cheapest, or sugar, or corn (depending on where you are located). The mashing process of potato vodka is also much more time and resource consuming than mashing grains. It's doesn't fit into the industrial process of producing high proof spirits as well as wheat. I also think the requirement to make a 95% spirit before you are allowed to call it a vodka also puts stopper to it. Why go through all the trouble with potatos if you're basically going to nuke all the flavor from it?

But it really does make a GREAT vodka imho.

Keep an eye out for this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luksusowa

or Chopin potato

drink side by side with a cereal vodka, and you will understand

Luksusowa is my favorite vodka, Tom. It's simply superb. However, last time I was on Poland and was going to bring a bottle with me back home, I found that they now only produce a 50/50 blend with rye. It's not a bad drop, but I miss the old Luksusowa. Chopin I have never tried.

[LWTCS]

But it really does make a GREAT vodka imho.

Keep an eye out for this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luksusowa

or Chopin potato

drink side by side with a cereal vodka, and you will understand

Here in states, Luksusowa is a very good value and quite frankly blows the doors off of Tito's which has been completely embraced here due to their crazy, volumous marketing blitz.

[BigSwede]

It's doesn't fit into the industrial process of producing high proof spirits as well as wheat. I also think the requirement to make a 95% spirit before you are allowed to call it a vodka also puts stopper to it. Why go through all the trouble with potatos if you're basically going to nuke all the flavor from it?

Pal, this is interesting to me. Is this a requirement of the industry? It seems that driving it to near azeo, then diluting, would remove 99% of any base character from the liquor. It's almost as if I took a bottle of Everclear and simply cut it to 80 or 100 proof, and call it Vodka.

I think a liquor should at least have hints as to its origin in terms of ingredients. But I'm not Mr. Vodka by any stretch, I just know what (to me) tastes good and proper.

[PalCabral]

Pal, this is interesting to me. Is this a requirement of the industry? It seems that driving it to near azeo, then diluting, would remove 99% of any base character from the liquor. It's almost as if I took a bottle of Everclear and simply cut it to 80 or 100 proof, and call it Vodka.

I think a liquor should at least have hints as to its origin in terms of ingredients. But I'm not Mr. Vodka by any stretch, I just know what (to me) tastes good and proper.

Yes, you are right and right again, BigSwede. Once the world's biggest Vodka market, USA, decided that their definition of what it takes to call a product Vodka meant that the spirit has to be distilled to 95% ABV, it changed how Vodka was produced world-wide. Up to that point, Vodka (or the local variants in other countries) were made in a range of ways. Some were neutral, others full of flavor from the grains. Now, if you wanted to sell your product in the US with the label Vodka, you had to change the production to make a 95% ABV distillate.

I totally agree with you, the flavors of the original grains should show in the the Vodka. That's how I remember Vodkas back in the 80ies when I started drinking alcohol. I made sort of a rant post about this some while ago, where I described this Vodka definition changed Vodka from being flavorful to neutral. viewtopic.php?p=7808799&hilit=S%C3%A4de ... n#p7808799

[jpettymore]

Get your advice from a more reliable source.
Just as a matter of interest research what percentage of the world's Vodka is made from Potatoes.
Which in turn can make you ask yourself why?

I live in an area where potatoes are easier to grow than corn, wheat or barley and I had hundreds of pounds that were going to go to waste if I did not find a use for them.

I also have a potato harvester that makes them easier to harvest than grains and corn. I did grow barley but in the same area as the potatoes were growing I maybe only got 20lbs. Then mow, thresh, winnow. I built a gas powered thresher so it's a little easier to process but overall it is still much more difficult to get the berries in a nice chaff free state for use than it is to run the harvester over the rows and scrub the potatoes clean.

[shadylane]

I believe that your flavors in your potato vodka will be better, both cleaner and more flavorsome from the potato perspective, if you stripp your mash first, then run it a second time through the reflux column in a spirit run.

What he said .
A pot still strip followed by a reflux spirit run always makes the cleanest Spirit
But so be fare , I have never run spuds .

Also agree with Salty . Vodka has this connection to spuds . But most Vodka AFAIK is not made from them . It is more a street rumour . Yes , when Grain was hard to get hold of , any sort of starch was worth making Vodka from , Spuds even . But it’s a hard way to make Vodka .

All the above.
On a side note, all my attempts at making vodka have been disapointing.
There's a dirty character that I don't like.

[shadylane]

Question for doing potato vodka with a reflux still. AI is telling me I shouldn't run in reflux mode during the stripping run because it drags along too much nasty stuff I don't want in for the spirit run.

AI is full of shit once again.
Reflux during stripping runs doesn't drag along too much nasty stuff.
Just the opposite, it leaves nasties in the boiler.

[LWTCS]

Question for doing potato vodka with a reflux still. AI is telling me I shouldn't run in reflux mode during the stripping run because it drags along too much nasty stuff I don't want in for the spirit run.

AI is full of shit once again.
Reflux during stripping runs doesn't drag along too much nasty stuff.
Just the opposite, it leaves nasties in the boiler.

Context definitely matters. Feeding the best prompt with ALL of the variables is essential.

My take on the AI response is that the RR associated with batch column distillation can drag undesirable qualities onto the plates and allow forthcoming vapor to be dragged through "dirty" liquid beds.
And so a less than optimal outcome when high RR and low plate count is used to maintain high abv.

But is all that still cleaner than a balls to the wall stripping run out of a potstill? Well dunno about cleaner ( especially if we consider the volatility of fusels at different ABVs) but definitely a higher abv.

[shadylane]

My hobbie sized brain was thinking about packing instead of plates.

When stripping vodka with a reflux column, I'll start the run without reflux.
Then mid run set the dephleg waste water to a trickle.
The theory is that reflux isn't needed at first, but can be used later to keep tails in the boiler.
To me, the ABV of the low-wines doesn't matter since water will added anyway before redistilling.

A downside to using reflux during stripping is the run lasts considerably longer and if what's in the boiler is nasty
then there's more time for it to carry over.