Old Dogs sale of endorsements

[heartcut]

Perrier came up with the first practical column still in 1822, Coffey refined it in 1830, ect. The basic design has mostly just been refined since then. OD came up with the idea and working model(s) of an affordable hobby scale version of the "really cool but I can't afford one" professional stills, shared it, and the catchy name everyone uses followed. Near duplicates (and real duplicates) of his original are for sale at a few places. If I was selling them for a profit, I'd be sending OD a cut of the action. Would you have thought of it?

[milehidistilling]

Perrier came up with the first practical column still in 1822, Coffey refined it in 1830, ect. The basic design has mostly just been refined since then. OD came up with the idea and working model(s) of an affordable hobby scale version of the "really cool but I can't afford one" professional stills, shared it, and the catchy name everyone uses followed. Near duplicates (and real duplicates) of his original are for sale at a few places. If I was selling them for a profit, I'd be sending OD a cut of the action. Would you have thought of it?

That could be possible after the company starts making a profit on the flutes. But I’m selling the company in 5 months and moving to SPI opening a Kitesurfing shop. Jason the new owner is very reasonable and I’m sure he will look in to it.

Again I just want people to know the story about the Flute.

[olddog]

OK it's time to end this debacle. I am going to offer to the highest bidder all design ownership and naming rights of the Magic Flute, & Flute MkII . I am now in my 70's and living on my age pension and I am unlikely to build or develop any more designs.
Any interested parties should contact me by PM or email.


OD

[FullySilenced]

I'm a thinkin Hillbilly should step up to the plate... just from what i have read....

[Big Bert]

Me too , he just got 3300 off me.....
That was to be honest because MH wouldn't answer my emails for a price on their 6 plate so I got mad and got from HB ,then got one from MH anyway, am running the MH and loving it AND still have not got my HB
When the HB gets here I will give it a fair test and if it runs as good as they say I will thank OldDog


BB

[blind drunk]

Have you asked for a refund? Is that an option?

[Big Bert]

No and I am not sure on the refund, they tell me it will be shipped next week. After all the reading and the money is spend I would like to try Old Dogs work.
Have more money than brains and the wife says I ain't worth 2 cents

BB

[olddog]

Just received the first bid $1000

OD

[Stainless dude]

I hope they step up to the plate OD..

[olddog]

I aint looking for millions, just a fair price for what is now a world wide concept.


OD

[Big Bert]

I'll up that to $2000
The big boys should add two more 0 s then you mite get back some of which you have given..
BB

[Stainless dude]

Yep I agree Od, they have made good money on your design, sweat and labor. You put the plans out there for everyone and some took advantage of it. (In my opinon) Us hobby guys also used your plans but we hope it was your blessing. We owe you tons and I hope you know how much most of us appriciate what you have done for this hobby.
Just my humble opinion.
Thanks Od..

[olddog]

Let me make this clear. There is nothing material on offer here. No registered trade marks no stills, just a goodwill endorsement and transferring the rights to build and call your build a Flute, Magic Flute, or Flute MkII commercially, with full endorsement from myself.
My investment in producing this design concept took endless hours and big dollarsworth of materials, and I find it hard to now see it being built commercially with no benefit to me, and it would be great if I could see a small return for the hours and effort invested producing these columns.
Thanks to all who have made offers so far.

OD

[emptyglass]

Wow. Thats why I come to HD.
For some good ol' fashioned action.

I'm a bit over this "but I made it first". "no, I did"
Thats not to take away from any individuals contributions, nor their recognition, but we have to be mindful there is a difference between cashing in, making booze for profit, making gear for profit, or sharing ideas within our community.

On the other side of the coin is the suppliers. Without them, some guys would simply not be able to distill gear for themselfs at home. Some guys fully understand the concept of distilling, they may be a wizz in thier own feild, but can't or don't want to make a still.

And since this hobby is so bloody old, most of the "ideas" that are new, are just an extension of what those before us have done.
If I didn't want my ideas to be copied, I wouldn't post them. I'm thankful for the internet (although I didn't invent it) it has become a platform for lots of us to share ideas.

Before I hop off the soap box, I'd like to thank everyone that contributes.

[LWTCS]

And since this hobby is so bloody old, most of the "ideas" that are new, are just an extension of what those before us have done.

Yes, it is evaporation is all.

Certainly there was a time however if OD turned to the left, folks looked left. if OD turned to the right, folks looked to the right.....Weather it was to copy or criticize.

OD was certainly directly responsible for planting this recent seed of popularity. I do not at all recall him every taking credit for inventing plated columns as has been implied by folks from the past.
I do however distinctly recall some pretty smart people saying that OD's design would not work well at all (I'm paraphrasing).

Then, there was a member (Decoy) that was experimenting with the plated concept ages before Mike got started on his design. I was always surprised that I don't ever recall him throwing in any of his 2 cents during the "Magic Flute" development days? Though Decoy's experiments where cutting edge at the time, his results were really rather sophomoric as it was clear that those earlier stills could not at all perform as well as Mike's "Magic Flute". Decoy's system was evidently slow by comparison and yet he did receive a great amount of encouragement from the "smart people" as his experiments were quite impressive at the time.
I suspect the disparity in any criticism toward OD was largely due to the rift between the two forums?
No offense at all intended toward Decoy, as his work was super cool and very much cutting edge for a hobby crowd.

Was during this time that the previously established vendors were clearly asleep at the wheel IMO. Its all here and at AD with time signatures to illustrate who did what and when.

[emptyglass]

Your right L.
Decoy did put up some very cutting edge work at the time. Thanks for the memory prompt. I was but a newbie, making vodka-ish stff and flavoring it with scotch essesnce, thinking I was cool at the time colleting everything I made in a plastic bucket out of my borrowed still and said platic buckets.
I never thought I'd ever understand a humper thumper. What is this humper thumper crap anyway? I just got a handle on this pot stillin' caper.

There is some very contrary arguments going on in the aussie corner of the world, I'd like to see them put to bed. I think there are some guys that think they have a claim on the "I was first" kinda crap.

Unfortunatly for us aussies, there is a heap of guys that are being led up the garden path.

[LWTCS]

I think there are some guys that think they have a claim on the "I was first" kinda crap.

That guy there has always been good at replicating. His claim to "first" should be prefaced with "borrowed" as in borrowed first or first to borrow.

Again,,,its all here in the forum somewhere with a time signature.

[LWTCS]

There was a great level of cooperation and input for a time.
Was a bunch of little developments by several that helped with some decision making.

Was some really exciting times.

[thecroweater]

Perrier came up with the first practical column still in 1822, Coffey refined it in 1830,

Luckily Robert Steins is long dead or I feel he would chime in about here with a well in 1820 i showed my "patent still" (not patented) to a revenue collector called Coffey and......
A bit off topic but pointed to the discussion: My grandmothers great uncle a man by the name of Carl August Schiller was a farmer and a blacksmith from the hamet of sutherlands SA. The man dreamed up and build a lot of agricultural machinery , things like the stump jump plough and harrows, crop lifters a winnowing crop stripper and many more. He made them and sold them in his spare time for many many yrs and often took them to local field days and AG shows. One day some insurance joker turns up and is keenly interested in them, goes back with him to see how they work and are made . Next thing this guy teams up with Sunshine harvester company and with no farming experience he's the greatest innovator to agriculture in modern history (just amazing).meanwhile poor old uncle Aug ain't allowed to make the machines he's been making for 30 or 40 yrs. Cause he didn't invent some of his concepts but hell he improved them out of sight, little credit wouldn't of hurt em
Not buying into this one way or another just noting the nature of man has little changed with the passing of time

[heartcut]

Robert Stein patented his improvements on Dec 4,1828, but he did seem to help Coffey quite a bit, apparently without Stein's knowledge. I agree that OD is in Stein's category, a man that came up with something of great worth that never got the (spendable real world) credit he deserved. Many other people climbed on to that wagon.
OD, I'm not a man of great means, but I'm working on a still that I wouldn't have envisioned if it wasn't for you. If I know where to send it, I will send an "engineering commision" to you for putting me on a better path for me. Thanks.

[Big Bert]

I am one of the wizz guys empty talked about, I can't build a still , no talent ,but if you can build it I can make it work to its max. I would like to thank you all for giving me stuff to play with, this started out as to compare the HB to the MH, I have run the MH a lot of diff. ways and it does work , when I get the HB (OD) I will run the hell out of it to compare thanks all of you again..

Just because I can't build a outhouse doesn't mean I don't know how to use it..

OldDog if I had more I would offer more

BB

[Bushman]

As a retired industrial design teacher I've seen this time and time again. It's called R & D. No not research and development but Rob and Duplicate

[googe]

And im one of the arseholes that went to the dark side and was blindedI, I've seen the light now. think I would be very proud to know something I created caused so much envy, I think od thinks along them lines as I've never seen any bitterness. I know when money and business is involved it's a different story. Maybe it is true we get wise with age!.

[thecroweater]

Yes sorry Heartcut that post was entirely written from memory by a forgetful person
Ok it is with some considerable misgivings that I continue this post as I hold in esteem and have the greatest respect for those I address but conscience demands that I should. So it is my profound and sincere hope to my following post is taken as a point of order rather than a rebuke, defence or a retaliatory position and no offence is intentionally directed at anyone
Some have an axe to grind for reasons that are frankly none of my business but not for the first time and most likely unintentionally I hear it scraping past my door .
I don't know of any garden paths or seeing the light in Oz. what is recorded elsewhere is the same as what is recorded here with many numerous references and links to relevant posts here. I doubt there would be one person in the greater English speaking distilling community that wouldn't recognize Olddog as the identity that brought the concept of the plated column still to the hobby distiller, (some contention over bubble caps with an afore mentioned member aside).
The fact is a great amount of innovation has gone on with these concepts with greater and less results by a great many. EG yourself proved that a mechanical vapour lock was neither necessary nor perhaps beneficial to the fundamental design. others showed the great flexibility of having these built fully modular, putting in a vent to prevent the hydrolic effect on the parrot alcometer or taking LWTCS's in line thumper concept and placing it under a column. Single Caps spider caps tap washer valves the list goes on and on, I even heard of a couple of jokers who borrowed Mash Rookie's study of lava packing to create a plated hybrid fast working efficient reflux still .
Point being personality clashes aside, that a great many ppl have made some very worthy innovations, some will get credit for it some sadly won't. Either way I don't feel its honest or fair to suggest or imply someone's innovations or improvements are unworthy of recognition whether they be RN or AN or anyone based on a personal opinion of character. As already stated Most innovations are time signatured
As previously stated no offence is implied or directed at anyone and I sincerely hope none is taken, Cheers Crow

[emptyglass]

. EG yourself proved that a mechanical vapour lock was neither necessary nor perhaps beneficial to the fundamental design.

No I didn't mate, its just a modified weir. Works the same way, just as a round tube.
For the record, Mash Rookie was also doing a very similar thing at the same time I was, independantly of each other, with no knowledge of the others activity, at the time. I think we and others got inspired by olddogs research into weir plates, at the time. He didn't invent them, just shared his findings. Personaly, I think MR did it better than me.
I'm sure there is someone somewhere with a patent on weirs.

As I said, theres nothing new, just improvements or modification to the old. As LWTCS said, its just evaporation.

[thecroweater]

Me too , he just got 3300 off me.....
That was to be honest because MH wouldn't answer my emails for a price on their 6 plate so I got mad and got from HB ,then got one from MH anyway, am running the MH and loving it AND still have not got my HB
When the HB gets here I will give it a fair test and if it runs as good as they say I will thank OldDog
BB

Do you mean $3,300 for a 4" six plate still nar you can't mean that. Ok I give up what are you paying for what here

[Usge]

Prior to Jimmy Hendrix...the "sound" of modern electric guitar was twangy, often with lots of reverb. What Jimmy did was change the "sound" of the guitar. He played the same guitar (Fender Strat) Heavy, over driven, distortion, and upside down/leftie. I recall people watching him live didn't know whether to laugh, cry, throw rocks or scream. Mostly, they just stood there "stunned"...like watching an alien...and stared at him.

If Jimmy Hendrix were alive today and did a concert....most of the young people who had never lived during the time when the sound of the guitar was "different" would just shrug their shoulders and say...."what's the big deal"? Everybody sounds like that?

Kentucky Shinner' (HBS) role in all this was...he was the first to duplicate the build, and results, that OD laid down. We all knew OD and others had mad building skills. And it wouldn't have surprised anybody if myles or some of the others who had lots of fab work under their belt would pull off the build. But, KS, was able to duplicate the build...with some help from OD. And he also took pictures of his trials and tribulations in doing so for others to follow. And follow they did. So, one big part of this was...that it was something that anybody could build...even with basic hand tools.

The other big thing about it was...it was getting real results....even in it's first iteration. There was nothing here in these forums that could duplicate those kind of run results. Much analysis, critiques, etc..followed. Now, it's just part of the history, the entire discussion/possibilities and process and forums for anyone who joins to find, look at...duplicate...get plans for, etc. And others have added their own touches to it.

I think my point is...it's easy to lose sight of the contributions that early pioneers make when their contribution is so profound that it changes the paradigm of what existed before and everything that comes after...has a piece of it. As far as I"m concerned...every 4" , four plate column I see...regardless of the design, changes, etc....has OD's name on it somewhere.

Usge

[bentstick]

Usge nicely said,not many that have built their own columns,pot,reflux,etc,etc type equipment has not copied something from the past,or something new as a added touch of ones self,we are here to learn and carry on the "tradition" may it be modern or old school but damn we know who came up with what and who is profiting from such! Rock on fellas we are to make stuff!

[olddog]

OK an announcement will be made shortly pending receipt of payment. The are two folks who will get the naming and marketing rights with my full endorsement. I have split the world into zones, so one Australian builder will be carrying on with the "Flute"tradition, and one from USA who will have the North American rights. It's a pity there was no response from Europe, otherwise it could have been a world wide spread, which would have been a tremendous marketing tool for marketing their product.

OD

[Big Bert]

Hi Crow, it breaks down like this ,6plate vodka tun key,Extra yeast,gin basket,banjo burner extra clamps ans gaskets,extra heat element 3000 plus 300 shipping

BB