Prairiepiss wrote:That's sounds like a good improvement. I bet if you pack just a little more packing in it. And run just a little slower. You would see 95%.
Yes indeed, we are pulling off at 95% now. We repacked more densely, run it a little slower, and let the equilibrium establish a little longer before starting to pull product.
Could a rig like that be used in a "bubble cap" style? You use your rig in fractionating style (with dephlag on) or potstill style (dephlag off). Why not combine?
Start with dephlag on. Reach equilibrium. Let it sit there for a while. Draw off heads & fores in a slow manner, thus compressing them. Then lower the dephlag water input to the point abv drops to around 85% with the coolant flow low during hearts. And since it is a CM tails compression will be okay ...
Thus creating a fine whiskey "bubble cap" (or perf plate) style?
Just thinking out loud.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
That is how I ran my whiskeys off before I added the bubbleball. It's not real easy to hold it at 80% or so. But it can be done. If you found the right amount of packing or no packing it would be a lot easier. I'm just lazy and never removed mine.
Yes Odin, that's what I do... it takes some tinkering to get the coolant right and you really have to watch the heat on the liebeg. I think they should add another foot or so to the liebeg. A little mesh shoved up in there helps slow it down... per mulekicker, the proper length of packing per role is 11'the for the 3"column, he's right... I think I have 7 roles in mine...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
I guess with a bubble ball, it gets easier and more stable.
Shouldn't fidgeting, while making a whiskey, be minimalized if you have a supply of cold, stable water? And I think you would need the newer torpedo type. The outside cooling jacked or cross drilled thru tubes may work less well for whiskey makin'. I think their torpedo has a cold finger inside, right? Or even a spiral?
Packing will be a balancing act between some packing to give the reflux something to land upon and not too much ... Or maybe just fill her up and put dephlag (while collecting hearts) lower.
Shitty they didn't make the Liebig big enough. Makes acurate readings (and adjustments to power and/or coolant) by using a parrot difficult. Maybe the solution can be found in reading the thermometer. On a whiskey (perf plate style), I think as long as temp is around 79.5 to 80 degrees (and not above, you will be fine.
The rig would produce an awesome neutral with SPP. But then it wouldn't be able to make whiskey no more ...
Wacabi, Mr. P. what kinda Mile High (or sorta) do you have? How many inches? What kinda power you throw at it? What is the output per hour?
I somehow love cm.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Brewhouse PS II high capacity 3". Run on propane so I don't know the power. For neutral just about 3 drops a second gives very high abv. For whisky, a heavy braided trickle...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Mines homemade. With a little over 24" of packing. A 1/4" coil reflux condenser about 4" tall with a 2" Id. When I was running it as a packed column. I was running 2600 watts then. Now I have only ran 12" of packing above the bubble ball. And now have 6800 watts available. I only use the 5500 watt element. And so far my 2" can only handle around 3500 watts with the packing installed. I'm still playing with that.
The fidgeting comes from bringing the ABV down and maintaining a good take off speed. To fast and the ABV drops fast. To slow the ABV will not drop or even creep up on you. So finding a good setting at first is not real easy. You make an adjustment it drops below 80%. Adjust it back up and it goes over. Back and forth. It's harder to bring it back up then dropping it. But after a few runs and playing with it. You can figure out what works. And it becomes much easier.
On the packed column no bubble ball I would get a broken stream. Never really measured the rate. With the bubble ball I get a twisted stream at around 4 lt an hour at 80%ish. Compared to 3.4 lt an hour at 95%. This is from a 10%ish wash. Give or take a little.
That's not bad at all ... And no tails shining thru? Even at higher abv? 3.4 liter of 95% sounds good. I understand the fidgetting part. I remember having a talk with Rad long time ago. CM and power management need to be combined to get enough control.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Yes cm and pm go hand in hand. Makes things much easier. I don't have to do any fidgeting to make 95%. It wants to make it. And you really have to jack with it to not get it.
Tails. I still get tails. So far the only time I can get it to cut off at the tails is when I'm running a stripped charge. I haven't had it stop at the tails on a new wash. It slows down quite a bit. And they are compressed pretty good. And if i was running it on a regular bases. I mite get to where I could get it set good. But runs have been far between lately. I need to get off my but and work on that.
I've grown quite fond of the cm design. Because I'm not after only the best neutral. I make all kinds of stuff. And I don't need my neutral to be the best ever. But I can use my still as a true pot still. A reflux for a higher ABV with flavor. And as a reflux for 95%. Where the neutral is not the most important thing for me. The cm I think is the best for me. Your mileage may vary.
pp i have a question for you. i have a milehi 8 gallon reflux about 30 inches. i have redon the cooling plus made a centering ring as you suggested.i also ordered a ss filter unit but hopfully i should not need it if i do my cuts right.the filter has a 30 inch by 2 ss pipe that i could add to the 30 inch collum making a total of 60 inch reflux.would that be over kill for a 2 inch? i dont really want to spend any more fore a 12 inch extension when i have a 30 not being used.thanks.
60" would be about the max most want to go. But having 60" of column doesn't mean you need to pack the whole thing. You could pack 48" and leave the bottom unpacked. If you didn't have the packing to fill it. Or just pack the whole thing. But 60" should make hitting 95% easy.
Just wanted to thank you all for the knowledge and the head start you give us new guys. I just emailed Rich and i have ordered my still with the modifications listed. I am ready to get that baby in the barn and do the cleaning runs etc.. I will keep you all posted on how my run comes out.
The name is Brownegg as in "Country as a brownegg straight from the chicken's a@@:;
Brownegg wrote:Just wanted to thank you all for the knowledge and the head start you give us new guys. I just emailed Rich and i have ordered my still with the modifications listed. I am ready to get that baby in the barn and do the cleaning runs etc.. I will keep you all posted on how my run comes out.
Good for you. Let us know if you have any other questions once you get it. And keep us updated.
on my second run of bw.first modifications i got 91abv so added another 30 inches to the column and added 12 inches of co mesh and got 93 adjusted abv.i will add another 12 inches of packing on the next run to see if it makes a diff.thanks for the help pp.
Just curious, do you leave the centering ring in when running in pot still mode? I only ever saw the verbiage for packing, but nothing concerning the centering ring. Was just curious, as I would think in theory that one would want to remove the ring to not trap vapor in the downward slant angle of the ring.
I wouldn't remove it. But that's me. As long as it doesn't trap liquid you should be fine. The vapors will work their way out. I still have not tried that mod. Way to hard to get one in mine proper. I have one just never tried it. I still se conflicting reports on their use. But like many things in this hobby. Everyone has an opinion about just about all of it. I added that one in just so the info was out there. And if someone wanted to try it they could.
But the centering ring would be above the packing. So you would need to remove the packing to remove the centering ring. Your call? Try it both ways and see what works for you. You may like it better with it all removed. It's just my opinion that it is not worth the effort to me.
Got a milehigh dual thru-tube. Just packed and insulated it ran 87%. I was kinda disappointed. Made a centering ring, added more packing and pulled 92%. probably could get a little higher if i ran slower but 2 drips per second is slow enough for me.
I've been through five reflux runs on my 2" PSII and along the way I've done some tinkering and made some of the noted modifications. Guess I could have just read around the forum a little instead of reinventing the wheel.
So far, I've:
Insulated the bottom half of the column (I'll insulate the top half and see what changes that makes)
Used boiling chips
Packed around the reflux tubes as you described
Made a large mini-fridge into a heat exchanger for the coolant. I took the "freezer" that has the refrigerant lines in it and got it arranged down into a 9 gallon trash can full of brine. The supply pump is at the bottom of the basin and the return line dumps into the top. It starts below freezing and gets to be warm to the touch after 6-8 hours of operation. I'm still playing with this, currently wanting to expand water volume and get better heat exchange between the plate and the water.
The best modification I've done so far is the cooling. It has made a significant difference in the regulation of column temperature by using water that stays cold longer.
The first four runs were done using turbo washes and I was able to yield 92% on the first run and 93-94% on the next three. The last run was done using birdwatchers sugar wash and although I don't have a hydrometer to proof it, the column ran MUCH easier which suggests to me that the wash was cleaner. I'm assuming atleast 93% on that last run, but I'm guessing it was closer to 95% through the hearts.
However, I'm thinking I'm 'smearing' the heads and tails a bit through the hearts. I've not had a chance to see this process outside of what I've done so I don't have a great source of reference. The product has sort of a sweet smell and I'm expecting hearts to be 'odor-less' (however that's a relative term).
Early on in runs, it takes about an hour to get up to temp using my propane burner. But once it does, it climbs fast as expected. I then adjust the reflux cooling valve and set the propane burner as low as possible until the thermometer at the top sits where I want it (The last birdwatchers run was 78.6C for hours, I was impressed). Then as the temperature rises, I open the reflux valve more and more to keep the top temperature as close to that as possible. However, during this period, the temperature fluctuates alot and I see drops down to 75-77C. From reading your thread here, it seems I may be operating the column incorrectly and not letting it equalize.
What I seem to be picking up is that the process should go like this:
1. Turn on heat and allow charge to boil
2. As temperature starts rising at top of column, turn reflux valve open 100% (or just enough to stop the output)
3. Wait here for 45-60 min
4. Dial back reflux valve and collect fores/heads
5. Open reflux valve 100% again
6. Wait for 20-30 min
7. Collect hearts
8. ?
9. Tails
I am collecting in pint jars and I just don't seem to be getting distinctive cuts. Maybe this is just my lack of experience in smelling/tasting and knowing what's what. Input?
Something I would do is this. When you get it up to temp. Crank the reflux cooling full blast. Now turn the burner up till the reflux condenser won't knock it down anymore. Then back it back down a little. So it will maintain 100% reflux. And try running it there. Too low of heat will not give enough reflux. So by cracking it up some. You will get more reflux happening. And a better output.
You may want to play with it at different settings. And see what it does to the end product. Only one way to find the best setting. Play with any and all combinations. And use the best one.
I would try letting the jars air out for 24 to 48 hours before you make the final determinations on the cuts. You will be surprised at how much the smell and taste can change. Usually making it much easier to make the cuts. Also start in the middle and work your way out from there. If you start with the heads or tails it van burn your sense of smell and taste out. Making it that much harder to find the cut points.
I would recommend getting a proof Tralles hydrometer. It won't tell you where to make cuts. But is very useful when trying to improve how you run your still. And tell you how well your still is running. As far as ABV is concerned.
Run it as a pot still. Don't use the reflux cooling. And that's what you have. A pot still. Removing the packing is optional. I personaly don't think removing it is worth the time. But you may?
Run it like a pot still. Bring it up to temp. Once you start getting product adjust the heat till you get a broken stream to a twisted stream coming out of it. Let it run. Changing out the collection jars. You may or may not need to bump the heat a little as you go. More then likely not. But if it slows to a drip you would want to bump it up.
If you want to do a single run. You mite slow it down around the broken stream takeoff.
If you want to strip it for a second run. Run it as fast as the condenser will let you. Then on the spirit run dilution to 40% or under. And run a broken to twisted stream.
What about a combination approach for whiskey? Use cooling to equalize and slowly draw off heads, then stop column cooling for hearts collection and actually turn it into a potstill? Best of both worlds?
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
I've done that. It works, but... I have a 24" stainless liebeg and I've had trouble with shutting the cm condenser water completely off, suddenly the heat is more than the liebeg can take (vapor loss). Of course cm stills are fidgety, so watch yer heat...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Odin yes you can do it like that. But you have to adjust the heat and cooling down at the same time. Or the heat will over power the product condenser and smear tails into the product. If I'm going to run it like this. I actually like to keep running it in lower reflux. Taking product off faster so it comes off around 80% to 85% in one run.
Prairiepiss wrote:
What are you wanting to make with it? Are you thinking of building a whole new still. Or modding an existing still?
I'm not fixed yet.
I have the tools and some skills to build one by myself and I can grab the stainless at work but I might be lazy and pay for the work done
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