Living Off the Grid

[Coyote]

My advice is look really hard at building straw bale houses.

We designed one - bought another place instead of building.

We had a Spanish style hacienda pictured - think "High Chaparral"
TV show from the 70's

If you build with the straw bales running with the walls you have a
16 to 18 " thick wall with a R value of about 50,
our plan turned them against the wall making the walls 48" thick
R value of about 150! Heat and cool a 4,000 sq ft house with a Bic lighter
and a cup of ice from the Quickie Mart

We had about 8 years ago figured I could build a 4K house loaded for
about $ 200,000.00 or $ 50 bucks a foot. Locally new construction is currently
about $ 185 a foot. Got mud? Make your own stucco!
Concrete slab on grade, easy to expand. Cheap as it gets

Coyote

[rumbuff]

I've been following this thread with a great deal of interest. I've been looking up biochar, it's very good for the soil. And Black soldier fly larvae. Can convert almost anything into chicken feed. Or fish feed for the pond. Happy for you PP

[SoMo]

When we bought our place a few years ago mind you just 5 acres and a 5 year old house my plans were basically to try and provide for ourselves as much as possible, and have a life not be a slave to life but to live not exist. Pp is starting fresh at 0, but most of us have the potential and neglect the simple things like planting a good garden, canning and freezing beans and tomatoes, growing potatoes and fresh greens, and onions and fruits wild and domestic. Our flock of chickens pay for themselves thru selling eggs and we eat all the eggs we want, they even helped buy feed for the last hogs we raised. You don't have to go off grid just outside, dig, plant, reap, and sow. We all like the better things and the best things are those seeds we sow not just in soil but in minds and lives the enrichment that makes us grow to rely on us not (them).

[Jimbo]

+1 Brother SoMo.

[Prairiepiss]

Coyote
I have been looking at straw bale for a long time now. It's growing in popularity around this area. Some very nice homes have been built here in the metro area.

[HolyBear]

Just found this thread P. Yall know I've been gone for a while...

I will spend time today really reading through it since I'm home but I have glanced over it...

Solomon said prepare your ground first, this would include firstly finding yer corners/boundaries/fencing/fields/garden...
Water in this country can be a mysterious thing, here one day gone tha next, but vitally important. The plants can tell you allot though. Do you see any sycamore or black willow? That'd be the place to drill a well. Dont discount witchin for a well, it works, I've done it, and I've watched me ol dad do it a bunch, it works. Find any watercress in those springs??? Good dependable cold water there (limestone water dandy for makin shine!!!)

That is a hickory tree, caint tell what kind from the pic. See those diamonds in the bark? All of the hickory family have those diamonds including yer walnuts...

I would first get chickens. They'll eat anything. You can order them through the mail from murry mcmurry hatchery. They will send them to the post office and you'll have to pick them up the day they arrive. Consider Rhode Island reds and Buff orphingtons fer dual purpose ( both eggs and meat) although there is also a nich to consider for dominequ's they are also a big bird they dont lay quite as well but you can sell the feathers for fly fishing ties...
Milk goats... they'll help you clear the land and give more milk than youll know what to do with ( and no, I never did try making shine outta it, just caint stand the thought of drinkin soured milk...) dont waste yer time with pygmies. Too small a tits and awful low to tha ground. Nubians and french/American alpines are the way to go. But build a fence that will hold water...
I have the best Hogs in the county. I like duroc because they have good feet for rough ground and they dont sunburn. F1 crosses are always best in livestock. Consider a Duroc boar with a landrace or york sow.

I'll read through this thread today to see ifn I can help someway...

[HolyBear]

Ok P, just read the entire thread...

um, first every thing I said above...
diesel tractor,4wd a must, with a front end loader,attachments later as money allows.
bees are easy ta keep and would probably help yer wifes allergies.
If that mountain of sawdust is uphill from spring yer water will probably be acidic. It can be used to fluff up a garden spot but you'll need alot of lime...
how big a mountain is it? Would it be worth buying a boiler to heat with it? I know sawmills have boilers that burn sawdust for kiln drying... considering cost of propane... some of those new stoves burn pellets could something like that be used???
When you build a shop, consider building part of it for butchering/ canning area... a hoist high enough for hanging pigs/deer/beef nearby counters for cutting/grinding/packaging/canning. I am definitely a fan of canning and vacuum sealing...
Tell yer wife there's no shame in using a crossbow...
The "Encyclopedia of Country living" is a must have book for anyone that wants to live out in the country. It has gone through several rewrites and gets better each time...
WELCOME TO MY MOUNTAINS!!! But as I think it was Goose said in another post, FIT IN... leave that city mentality shit behind. Be a good neighbor and they'll be good to you. Be an asshole, and you'll have problems forever. We're a clanish bunch with a long memory. Try not to be too pushy or forward, bide yer time when dealing with folks. Get the right folks liking ya and lots of doors will be opened...

[Jimbo]

Interesting video on sustainable living. Except he bought the wrong goats according to Holybear. http://www.takepart.com/video/2014/03/2 ... foodinc-fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Holybear, your notes below are fantastic, thanks. I printed them for my garden book (which some day may develop into something like P is up to)

[Prairiepiss]

Let's see. I have walked half of it. Found the two west corners. Pins were set and they are marked good. I do need to walk the eastern half and find those pins. It's basically two square 40 acre tracks. One north and one south.

The sawdust mountain is at the lower end of the land. So I don't think I will have a leaching problem. But I could be wrong. I have a lot of uses for it already planned out. I found a way to make blocks from it. That you can burn for heat. With around a 12 hour burn time. So I will be trying that. A pellet press would be cool. But I know that's not in the budget. And I would probably have run out of sawdust before it was in the budget. LOL I was more interested in the end and side cuts. That are piled up. Found another pile the other day. Hoping I can use some of it for heat and odd builds around the place. There was a buck of fallen stuff scattered all over. So I don't think fire wood will be a problem for a while. Most likely won't have to cut any actual trees down for some time. Hope anyway. We are discussing buying a sawmill. It's still up in the air. I know those chainsaw ones are cheap. But man does that look like a lot of work and time. Something I think could be better off used for something else. On a side note. My oldest sons new job is with one of the largest if not largest tree services here. So he will become a nice asset when it comes to trees.

I will have to look for those plants. About the water.

Chickens will be the first on the list. Once we get out there. I can't keep them where we are. We are hiding the bunnys and goat for now. Soon as the goat is weaned off the bottle. We will be moving her to a friends house around the corner. Along with a few other goats. My wife just informed me. She is getting 3 for $50 for me to work on my butchering skills. LOL The goats are her department. Well except for butchering apparently. She has already made up her mind on a breed. But to get this breed she will need to mate two other breeds. So it sounds like we will have three different breeds. The main end game is for kinders. It's her thing. I will let her figure that out. My main job will be getting the land ready and building what needs to be built. And maintaining it. Yea right. We will see how far that goes.

Butchering area is already high on the list. But right now I am looking at building duel purpose buildings. To start with. That will eventualy end up as a one purpose building. Once we get all of them built. Basically I think we will be living in the barn at first. Until we build an actual house. Which we keep changing our minds on what kind. LOL And I know once we get down there. It will change many more times. But I think in the end. We will have a main building in the center. And a few tiny cabins scattered around the land. The kids can have the front 40. And we can have the back 40. LOL

Tractor well beggars can't be choosy. I would like to get a diesel 4x4. But budget will be very limited. So I will just have to see what I can get when the cash is in hand.

I've told the wife that a thousand times. She is stubborn. LOL

Didn't know you had hogs Holybear. We will have to talk later on. Maybe when we meet up for that ride. One of these days. I want to eventualy have hogs. But I also don't want to fill my plate to full. It's already quite full.

I've seen the encyclopedia before. Thought about buying it. But dint have enough cash in me. I will pick it up next time.

Hickory is it. Well that was what I noticed the most. But I wasn't really looking at the trees that much. Since I suck at knowing what bark looks like. I do know I saw acorns in a few places. So there are some oaks. But damn 80 acres of trees is a lot. So I'm sure there is all kinds in there.

Anyway I got to get back to work.

[Truckinbutch]

Hold out for that 4x4 diesel tractor with a loader . You will never run out of new uses for it . Run as fast as you can from a chainsaw mill . There are several bandsaw mills available that will be much more productive .
Consider building your barn large enough to house your camper for starters and then work on a real home .

[Prairiepiss]

Consider building your barn large enough to house your camper for starters and then work on a real home .

You read my mind. Exactly what we or I am thinking about. It would have a tall section in the middle the motorhome can fit in. With leatoos off either side. One closed in to house the solar gear. Batteries, controllers, and inverters. Also water stuff. And whatever else we want to toss in it. The other side would be like a covered porch for the motorhome. Been drawing it up the last few days.

[Jimbo]

I have the most critical of all questions......

How are you planning to stay on this here little slice of the grid so you can continue to enlighten the distilling masses with your detailed sound responses?

I dunno man, you might jus has ta shitecan the whole project...


Edit: Also, you gonna built an Outhouse just like your avatar? complete with chickens on top? now that would be pretty sweet.

[Prairiepiss]

That will be a problem. I don't get service out there. Maybe up on top of one of the hills. I will just have to build me a lookout spot. On top of the hill. So I can surf. LOL This is something we will need to investigating more. We will need at least some way to get ahold of the outside world with. My kids will be pissed. Since we finally got Google fiber. They have gotten spoiled. So have I. We will see.

Don't know if the outhouse will look like that one. I might just do it to do it? LOL. There will be an outhouse. Just no hole in the ground. We have decided to go composting toilet. We have plenty of sawdust for it. LMAO.

[Jimbo]

A little corner of your world might have to go ultra high tech. Put a satellite dish up on top of that outhouse and kick the chickens off.

Composting toilet with the piles of sawdust? Smells like someone shit a xmas tree?

[Prairiepiss]

I have had satellite interwebs. Unless they have made it a whole lot better. It sucked bad when we had it. But it mite be the only option? We will see.

[SoMo]

PP around here me included we use Verizon cell and hot spot, it's worked every where I've gone and that's everywhere even in the middle of stockton lake.

[Prairiepiss]

We have Sprint. And they suck down that way. Next time we go down. I will take my Verizon jetpack with us. And see how it does. I still have a feeling down in that valley. Signal will just suck. But there are ways to improve that.

[SoMo]

Yeah another draw back to rural pride but I'll take that any day, sacrifices are worth the loss in the big picture.

[rumbuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7X9X8LTe0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Sawdust stove, it'd save you the trouble of making bricks. Also, look up Rocket Mass Stove, it's supposed to be super efficient, and burns small wood and waste.

[Prairiepiss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7X9X8LTe0

Sawdust stove, it'd save you the trouble of making bricks. Also, look up Rocket Mass Stove, it's supposed to be super efficient, and burns small wood and waste.

This is pretty much the same thing I was looking at. But they were premaking blocks with the hole in the center. So they could be dropped in the stove. When the last one was burned down. I now can't find the link to it. Damnit.

[cob]

Hold out for that 4x4 diesel tractor with a loader . You will never run out of new uses for it . Run as fast as you can from a chainsaw mill . There are several bandsaw mills available that will be much more productive .
Consider building your barn large enough to house your camper for starters and then work on a real home .

Tractor well beggars can't be choosy. I would like to get a diesel 4x4. But budget will be very limited. So I will just have to see what I can get when the cash is in hand.

PP: don't get caught up in "makin do" for a tractor. in 10 years i spent 5 times what my kubota cost, "makin do".
diligent shopping will net you a tractor that will last you the rest of your life, at less than half what a dealer will nick you for (just like the brew shop).
less than the price of a pickup. someone said get one with all the implements you need, sage advice.
above all don't buy a grey market tractor.

[Prairiepiss]

It's all good advice. About getting good tractor. I know. But if I wait until I save enough and find the right deal. My grandchildren would be needing to use it. LOL Our budget is already really really really tight. Once we do this and move down there full time. It will be even tighter. And I'm not going to buy anything on credit. Even if I could.

[Halfbaked]

Have you ever considered the meat goats and sell to the Jewish community? Meat goats are really big goats with a big appetite. The stinkyer the are the better it sells. Cut the male and its worth nothing. Males are what they are looking for around my area. Put them on a cinder block or 2 and a wire lead with a and put them near a bush you want gone and its a weed eater with a heart beat. Feed them and they are a pet that eats you out of house and home. Is there a Jewish community around the area like that? Free land clean up and make money while you are doing it.

[hilbilly]

Although not living off the grid, I left the City 5 years ago and bought raw land and went through the whole investigation, building, water source, sewage disposal process from scratch. The only things I can offer is to repeat some of the advise you have already been given.

1) Make absolutely sure you have potable water. My neighbor spent $30,000 drilling a deep well (580'), installing the pumps and control system, and a year later his well went dry during the summer so he had to supplement his water supply with trucked in water. Then he got his well water tested and found out it had Arsenic in it. The testing company told him not to water his fields with it because the animals could ingest it. He ended up drilling a new well elsewhere and now has plenty of good water. Cost him another $25,000 to get the second well up and running. There may be great water on the land you are looking at but it's better to make sure before you sign on the dotted line. I would make an offer for the property conditional on proving a satisfactory potable water source and finding a satisfactory septic disposal site.

2) Get a good reliable tractor. I bought a NEW Chinese tractor with a front end loader and backhoe, thinking I would use the money I saved for other important uses. After 50 hours I ended up having to replace the head gasket. Then the hydraulics quit, which took a bunch of time to problem solve and fix, then the gauges quit working, then the one of the rear brakes stopped working. At only 450 hrs the tractor was falling apart. I sold it and bought a Massey, which now has 500hrs on it. The Massey cost about 3 times the money but it is at least 20 times the tractor (no make that 100 times). You will get a lot of use from your tractor so make sure you get a good one. A front end loader is a must and some pallet forks ( FEL bolt on or separate) will come in handy when moving lumber around during the building process. You can make a work platform to slide onto the forks which will allow you to complete elevated work with ease, saving a bunch of time climbing up and down a ladder and provide a much safer platform to work from.

If your journey is anything like the one I went through, there will be some trying times but at the end of the day it will be well worth the effort. Take lots of pics during the journey. You will cherish them later.

Good luck.

[Truckinbutch]

Although not living off the grid, I left the City 5 years ago and bought raw land and went through the whole investigation, building, water source, sewage disposal process from scratch. The only things I can offer is to repeat some of the advise you have already been given.

1) Make absolutely sure you have potable water. My neighbor spent $30,000 drilling a deep well (580'), installing the pumps and control system, and a year later his well went dry during the summer so he had to supplement his water supply with trucked in water. Then he got his well water tested and found out it had Arsenic in it. The testing company told him not to water his fields with it because the animals could ingest it. He ended up drilling a new well elsewhere and now has plenty of good water. Cost him another $25,000 to get the second well up and running. There may be great water on the land you are looking at but it's better to make sure before you sign on the dotted line. I would make an offer for the property conditional on proving a satisfactory potable water source and finding a satisfactory septic disposal site.

2) Get a good reliable tractor. I bought a NEW Chinese tractor with a front end loader and backhoe, thinking I would use the money I saved for other important uses. After 50 hours I ended up having to replace the head gasket. Then the hydraulics quit, which took a bunch of time to problem solve and fix, then the gauges quit working, then the one of the rear brakes stopped working. At only 450 hrs the tractor was falling apart. I sold it and bought a Massey, which now has 500hrs on it. The Massey cost about 3 times the money but it is at least 20 times the tractor (no make that 100 times). You will get a lot of use from your tractor so make sure you get a good one. A front end loader is a must and some pallet forks ( FEL bolt on or separate) will come in handy when moving lumber around during the building process. You can make a work platform to slide onto the forks which will allow you to complete elevated work with ease, saving a bunch of time climbing up and down a ladder and provide a much safer platform to work from.

If your journey is anything like the one I went through, there will be some trying times but at the end of the day it will be well worth the effort. Take lots of pics during the journey. You will cherish them later.

Good luck.

AMEN , brother .

[Bugflipper]

Also beware of those gray market tractors as well folks. Yanmar is the main one some kubotas are,as well. You can generally pick them out with their huge paddle treads on the tires for rice patties. The Japanese run them 24-7 since land is so scarce. When they are junk they send them to Vietnam. From there they do just enough to keep them going and make them purdy. The dealers that get them sell them as remanufactured. Truth is they've been in rice patties for decades and have been run in the ground. But purdy them up and roll back the hour gauge to the magic number of 800 hours and sell them to the stupid Americans is the thing to do to make some money. You can get a compact john Deere or ford, probably about 10-20 years newer for the same price on the used market. Yanmar is a good brand just like kubota it's just the way they run them in the ground and put a bandaid on them that makes the gray market tractors bad. Like I said just stay away from the ones with rice patties paddles on them or you'll have a lot of headaches down the road.

[Prairiepiss]

We run into grey market crap all the time. Not so much on the forklifts any more. It was a bad problem at one time. But usually heavy equipment or tractors we work on.

My wife brought home our new clothes washer last night. It's a small portable unit. That has a 100watt motor in it. So we can use it with the off grid solar electric system. Our other clothes washer finally died the other day. So we needed a replacement anyway. She had it hooked up and running. By the time I got home. This weekend I'm going to hook it up to the inverter and see how it does. I'm gona buy a kilowatt meter and see exactly what it uses. I was to busy doing other stuff to even really check it out. It's not real small. But its not a full size either. The whole thing is probably 2 foot square. And 3ft tall. Has one water inlet so you control the water temp with the tap feeding it. Has the drain that you can place in a sink. Kinda neat little dude. And if we can run it off a small inverter. I will be very happy. Doing a load or two on really sunny days. So it doesn't run the batteries down much.

Next in the list is one if those tankless LP water heaters. You can get a cheaper one for around $100. But I'm afraid they are to cheap. And won't raise the temp up enough for the wife. So I need to look a little harder and find a decent one. Without breaking the bank.

[jedneck]

I have alpine does and a Nubian kiko cross buck for my goats. I would get disbudded(horns removed when little). My buck has horns and he is a pain in the ass. Looking into getting hogs also. I'm looking at american Guinea hogs. They are a miniature heritage breed that do good on pasture. They reach a butcher weight of 100 pounds give or take. Suppust to be very efficient at putting weight on. Sounds like you got your ducks in a row pop.

[Prairiepiss]

We have a nubian doe now. She has been disbudded. Also still on the bottle. We are picking up two Kinder bucks next weekend. Which is what my wife wants to end up with. She also has a pigmy buck and another Nubian doe that we will get in may. If I'm not mistaken. I think the doe will be pregnant? A Kinder is a Nubian crossed with a pigmy. Suppose to be a good duel purpose goat. Good high fat milk. And dress out high for meat. And they only get to around 120 lbs each. So my wife won't have a hard time handling them. It will make butchering easier. And each one won't take up the whole freezer. Which I think we are going to fill up to quickly. If we don't schedule breeding out good. With rabbits coming in at 10 or so at a time.

[SoMo]

I have alpine does and a Nubian kiko cross buck for my goats. I would get disbudded(horns removed when little). My buck has horns and he is a pain in the ass. Looking into getting hogs also. I'm looking at american Guinea hogs. They are a miniature heritage breed that do good on pasture. They reach a butcher weight of 100 pounds give or take. Suppust to be very efficient at putting weight on. Sounds like you got your ducks in a row pop.

Stay away from the guinea pigs yes in a year he won't be ready to butcher and you could have raised a heritage grazer to 300lb in 5 months, I fell for that trap never again.