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You can add oats anytime... But they are not malts, so there's no enzymes to kill in them. Might as well get the most out of them and cook them with the corn. Those corn temps are whack, anyway.. one thing not captured in that chart is rest times. If you put corn in at 160, you're not going to be fermenting much. They have corn at 170 at Max, but you would need a long time at that temp. I add boiling water to corn and it comes to rest about 185, and I leave it overnight to gelatinize.

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 12:10 pm I add boiling water to corn and it comes to rest about 185, and I leave it overnight to gelatinize.

^^Second this.^^

SCD, since reading your Easy Large Batch thread, this is the only way I've done my corn. Personal thank you from me to you for simplifying my process more than any other measure I've taken.

Finally getting around to trying this one. Mashing in now. Enjoy HBB a lot, but looking for something less sweet. Looking forward to trying another SCD recipe! Thanks in advance for sharing.

D

The oats contribute to the final mouthfeel of the product. They aren’t being added for their sugars. So no need to worry about sach temps so much.
In saying that, I always add my oats in with the grain, and not the corn. Which I add to boiling water and allow to cool down to mashing temps.

Per 'How To Brew' (a very good read with a ton of info applicable to what we do) oats gelatinize between 135 and 162°F (57-72°C.) Barley and wheat are a bit lower but overlap much of that range, so I would say if you're adding them with your other grains, especially malted ones, you're probably getting a good bit of the sugars out of them too.

Rolled or 'old fashioned' oats will be pre-gelled anyway but adding them with your grains makes them more likely to convert nicely too.

TwoSheds

It's still working on day 10.

My mash finally finished and I ran 10 of the 40 gal. yesterday. My yield was only 6 qt. The first one started at 130 proof and the last at 60. This was my second run with low yields with George Washington Rye being the other. I have had much better results on previous batches ( UJSM and 4 grain ).
I followed the directions for the CROW and used enzymes and Red Star yeast. It fermented for nearly a week and passed the iodine test. I just dont know why my yields are so low.
I still have the remaining un-sqeezed mash ( about 8 gal. ), squeezed with sediment ( 5 gal. ) and boiler remanins ( 9 gal. ). Can I rework these somehow?

82Winger wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 6:50 am My mash finally finished and I ran 10 of the 40 gal. yesterday. My yield was only 6 qt. The first one started at 130 proof and the last at 60. This was my second run with low yields with George Washington Rye being the other. I have had much better results on previous batches ( UJSM and 4 grain ).
I followed the directions for the CROW and used enzymes and Red Star yeast. It fermented for nearly a week and passed the iodine test. I just dont know why my yields are so low.
I still have the remaining un-sqeezed mash ( about 8 gal. ), squeezed with sediment ( 5 gal. ) and boiler remanins ( 9 gal. ). Can I rework these somehow?

10 gallon stripping run? That should have yielded about 2.5g of 60 proof in the collection vessel.

Deplorable wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:28 pm
I've also come to the realization that when I follow SCD's easy large batch mashing process, if I start on a Friday evening after work, by the time I get up Saturday morning, it's ready to unwrap, and cool. By the time I finish my morning rituals, it's at 155F and ready for the malts.
A few hours of rest, and I can crash it and pitch the yeast starter.

So when you mash the corn Friday night, does this include the high temp alpha amalyase? And is anyone using backset with these all-grain brews? When I got far into a sour mash, that backset really added a lot of flavor. Also added it to the Spirit charge.

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:34 am

Deplorable wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:28 pm
I've also come to the realization that when I follow SCD's easy large batch mashing process, if I start on a Friday evening after work, by the time I get up Saturday morning, it's ready to unwrap, and cool. By the time I finish my morning rituals, it's at 155F and ready for the malts.
A few hours of rest, and I can crash it and pitch the yeast starter.

So when you mash the corn Friday night, does this include the high temp alpha amalyase? And is anyone using backset with these all-grain brews? When I got far into a sour mash, that backset really added a lot of flavor. Also added it to the Spirit charge.

Yes to both.
I add my backset to the boiler with the first water. Others use the backset chilled to help lower the temperature of the mash.
HT enzymes are added to the corn once gelled after the 2nd addition of water and before retiring for the night. Measure, pour, and stir them into the top few inches.
Wrap the insulation, and go to bed. By morning there's a good 4 to 6 inch layer of clear liquid and the grain is loose all the way to the bottom of the 30 gallon barrel when stirred. The temp usually falls from 185°f down to around 170° overnight. More water and a immersion chiller is used to bring it to 145-150°f then add the malts. Stir, wrap and rest 90 minutes.
Once everything is converted, I chill with an immersion chiller aerate, and pitch yeast.

Deplorable wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:35 am

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:34 am

Deplorable wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:28 pm
I've also come to the realization that when I follow SCD's easy large batch mashing process, if I start on a Friday evening after work, by the time I get up Saturday morning, it's ready to unwrap, and cool. By the time I finish my morning rituals, it's at 155F and ready for the malts.
A few hours of rest, and I can crash it and pitch the yeast starter.

So when you mash the corn Friday night, does this include the high temp alpha amalyase? And is anyone using backset with these all-grain brews? When I got far into a sour mash, that backset really added a lot of flavor. Also added it to the Spirit charge.

Yes to both.
I add my backset to the boiler with the first water. Others use the backset chilled to help lower the temperature of the mash.
HT enzymes are added to the corn once gelled after the 2nd addition of water and before retiring for the night. Measure, pour, and stir them into the top few inches.
Wrap the insulation, and go to bed. By morning there's a good 4 to 6 inch layer of clear liquid and the grain is loose all the way to the bottom of the 30 gallon barrel when stirred. The temp usually falls from 185°f down to around 170° overnight. More water and a immersion chiller is used to bring it to 145-150°f then add the malts. Stir, wrap and rest 90 minutes.
Once everything is converted, I chill with an immersion chiller aerate, and pitch yeast.

What percentage of backset are you using, 5-10% or around 25%? I’m assuming my starting ph is around 8.5.
I’m definitely doing the Friday night mash-in, I bet you get to pitching yeast by midday Saturday which would be a lot better than late in the evening.
Just checked the ph and my water is at 7.5

I used a half gallon in a 23 gallon mash.
My water comes in at 7.0 consistently.
I really don't do any worse conversion wise when I don't use backset.

Deplorable wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:51 pm I used a half gallon in a 23 gallon mash.
My water comes in at 7.0 consistently.
I really don't do any worse conversion wise when I don't use backset.

So Deplorable, if I read your post correctly, you're adding a smidge of backset from previous same recipe to the boiler charge? Is that on stripping or spirit run?

Reason I ask is that for my flavored spirits, I'm using a double thumper set up. If that backset adds character (a la UJSSM multi-generation concept), I may add that to my protocols! Already using feints in the thumpers (20% 1st & 40% 2nd). With this set-up, I'm doing one-and-dones.

rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:14 pm

Deplorable wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:51 pm I used a half gallon in a 23 gallon mash.
My water comes in at 7.0 consistently.
I really don't do any worse conversion wise when I don't use backset.

So Deplorable, if I read your post correctly, you're adding a smidge of backset from previous same recipe to the boiler charge? Is that on stripping or spirit run?

Reason I ask is that for my flavored spirits, I'm using a double thumper set up. If that backset adds character (a la UJSSM multi-generation concept), I may add that to my protocols! Already using feints in the thumpers (20% 1st & 40% 2nd). With this set-up, I'm doing one-and-dones.

You've misread. That backset is in the mash water, not the finished ferment going into the still.
I wouldn't add backset to a stripping run or a spirit run. That [to me] sounds counterintuitive.

In the East, (IYKYK)

WTF? Did you move?

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:28 pm

What percentage of backset are you using, 5-10% or around 25%? I’m assuming my starting ph is around 8.5.
I’m definitely doing the Friday night mash-in, I bet you get to pitching yeast by midday Saturday which would be a lot better than late in the evening.
Just checked the ph and my water is at 7.5

Have you tested that starting Ph? 8.5 is a very high ph for most water. By the time you add grains you should be below 7.0 and probably closer to 6.0.

My water is close to neutral, 7.0. On all grain with 10% backset, my starting PH is 5.3 to 5.5.

Deplorable wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:36 am

You've misread. That backset is in the mash water, not the finished ferment going into the still.
I wouldn't add backset to a stripping run or a spirit run. That [to me] sounds counterintuitive.

I think the misunderstanding is you earlier said you add your backset to the boiler. I believe it is because you are using you boiler to heat your mash water, that is the way I read it. But I see where it can be misunderstood.

subbrew wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:19 am

Deplorable wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:36 am

You've misread. That backset is in the mash water, not the finished ferment going into the still.
I wouldn't add backset to a stripping run or a spirit run. That [to me] sounds counterintuitive.

I think the misunderstanding is you earlier said you add your backset to the boiler. I believe it is because you are using you boiler to heat your mash water, that is the way I read it. But I see where it can be misunderstood.

When sour mashing I would add backset to the low-wines for a spirit run. It made some pretty darn good whiske. very counterintuitive, but I would shut off the strip run early, keeping the low wines a higher proof.

subbrew wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:14 am

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:28 pm

What percentage of backset are you using, 5-10% or around 25%? I’m assuming my starting ph is around 8.5.
I’m definitely doing the Friday night mash-in, I bet you get to pitching yeast by midday Saturday which would be a lot better than late in the evening.
Just checked the ph and my water is at 7.5

Have you tested that starting Ph? 8.5 is a very high ph for most water. By the time you add grains you should be below 7.0 and probably closer to 6.0.

My water is close to neutral, 7.0. On all grain with 10% backset, my starting PH is 5.3 to 5.5.

Yes, I realized I could blow the dust off the meter and tested it at 7.5ph. The backset addition is for flavor addition.

higgins wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:46 am In the East, (IYKYK)

WTF? Did you move?

LOL. Well, kind of.

subbrew wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:19 am

Deplorable wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:36 am

You've misread. That backset is in the mash water, not the finished ferment going into the still.
I wouldn't add backset to a stripping run or a spirit run. That [to me] sounds counterintuitive.

I think the misunderstanding is you earlier said you add your backset to the boiler. I believe it is because you are using you boiler to heat your mash water, that is the way I read it. But I see where it can be misunderstood.

I can see know how that could be misunderstood.
Yes, I use my boiler to boil my water. I follow the Easy large batch process, but I guess mine are technically medium batches. I'm only using 30 gallon HPDE drums and mashing 50 pounds of grains. I boil 11 gallons, dump in on 25 pounds of grains, then boil another 10 to 11 gallons. When that's at a rolling boil add the rest of the corn and water, mix it up really good and let it stew.
Once I'm done mashing in all the grains and I'm satisfied that conversion is complete, I add the remaining cold water to make up 23.5 gallons, chill and pitch yeast.

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 6:45 am

When sour mashing I would add backset to the low-wines for a spirit run. It made some pretty darn good whiske. very counterintuitive, but I would shut off the strip run early, keeping the low wines a higher proof.

Interesting concept as from the stripping run you have just extracted the low wines from the backset, now you are adding them back. In reality you are just doing a 1.5 spirit run. You should get the same, or very similar, flavor profile doing the stripping run and then rather than backset add fresh distillers beer to your spirit run.

subbrew wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:18 am

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 6:45 am

When sour mashing I would add backset to the low-wines for a spirit run. It made some pretty darn good whiske. very counterintuitive, but I would shut off the strip run early, keeping the low wines a higher proof.

Interesting concept as from the stripping run you have just extracted the low wines from the backset, now you are adding them back. In reality you are just doing a 1.5 spirit run. You should get the same, or very similar, flavor profile doing the stripping run and then rather than backset add fresh distillers beer to your spirit run.

That’s definitely worth a try

Running strips on about 24 gallons done separately in 4 fermenters. I keep thinking about getting 1 big fermenter and doing large batch, but doing 1 small batch at a time seems to work fine for me. Got About 20 gallons squeezed (depends on what I do with all the curds).

Aroma off the still is very rich. Lots of grassy grain. More than HBB from memory. Doing my third strip now of about 4.5 gallons. Getting around a gallon per run at about 30% so yield is a little low but not bad. I checked OG and wasn’t happy with around a 1.050 average however I used enzymes and ferment went really long so probably kept working and gave me a bump.

Got a badmo waiting on this. Going to have to do a few more ferments to get there. Looking forward to trying seeing how this develops.

I’ve finished my 2023 Winter project of CROW All Grain (AG) + CROW Sugarhead (SH). I thought I’d share my finial results with the group. This was my 2nd ever attempt at AG and my 1st ever attempt at Large Batch. The final results did not come out as good as I had hoped, especially for the AG. I’m Ok with my results, I plan, (Hope) to do better next year. I did learn a lot through the process.

My process changed from Batch #1 to Batch #3. As you can see I got a lot better with my Mash and Stripping Runs from Batch #1 {AG =2.75 gallon + SH = 4.5 gallon} to Batch #3 {AG =4.0 gallon + SH = 7.3 gallon}.

I did put away 2.7 gallons of CROW AG in a BadMo and a 2L Mini Oak barrels. This is to be left alone to age. I also produced 9.8 gallons of CROW SH, this will be my Daily Sipping Shine, so as not to touch the AG.

• I’m thinking the reason for my low output on the AG was from my low SG numbers. I solved this on Batch #3 by increasing the amount of Corn I added to the Mash.

I fermented in a 44 gallon BRUTE trash can. I gelatinized the Corn in a 30 gal aluminum pot because I didn’t want to melt the Brute with hot strike water. I put the gelatinized corn in the Brute after it cooled down to around 150. Not the best of ideas.

• I have a Blue 55 gallon barrel now. I retiring the 44 gal Brute Trash can. I will be using SCD Easy Large Batch method next year with a 55 gal Blue barrel.

As for taste, The AG was the best, of course. It was good enough that I will try AG again. I have the AG is in Oak barrels for Aging. I promise not to sample any of it for at least a year (unless it’s scientific proposes). The SH turned out surprisingly good. It does have a little sugar bite, Not bad, but a lot of the grain flavor carried over. I’m going to enjoy sipping of the SH while the AG ages.

A big surprise was the finial XXX sprit run of everything that I had left {Feints from the AG and SH + some SH Low Wines}. I was tired and almost didn’t run this. I wasn’t thinking it would be that good. It picked up some of the thick smoothness from the AG and tasted better than the pure SH-XX, not as good as the pure AG. I’m happy.

I also keep up with my cost between the AG and the SH. The AG came in at $13.58 per 750ml. The SH came in at $2.48 per 750ml. I could not have done the SH for that cost without doing the AG first. I know I can do better next time and bring the cost of the AG down.






I’m breaking the still down now, cleaning it up and packing it away until next winter. I’m happy with this run. I know it wasn’t the best. I did learn a lot. I sure I can better these numbers on my next go round.

Here is an addition to my last post. Prior to making the CROW I made a Sweetfeed whiskey. I gave bottles of the Sweetfeed whiskey and the CROW Sugarhead to my Good Buddy Taste Testers. So far everyone has prefered the CROW Sugarhead to the Sweetfeed whiskey.

Wait till you have them try the CROW after a year or two of proper aging. IMHO, CROW is better than HBB. It's just a tad more work and Oats make the mash a suck to squeeze and clear.

Your right. It's going to be only the Real Good Buddy's that get to sample the Crow AG.

So tried og recipe last year and white off the spout was bad ass
Did it again yesterday and added a 1/2# flaked rye for shits and giggles will be running it in my t500 next week strip and spirit so will post update next week sometime

Scd im loving it white just ordered some spirals to try and age this next batch this one went way to quickly