What on God’s earth is a “Rancio Profile”

[Dnderhead]

good read LL but that seems to be more about flavors that yeast produce (beer and wine brewers know about these)
than rancio profile
the yeast flavors come out in a few months/years.rancio does not show up until several decades aged in a barrel.
and all the yeast would have been removed by distilling.(rancio is produced after the fact)
not all alcohol produces rancio it seem to be a scotch and brandy thing other alcohol like bourbon will not produce
this,if it were yeast produced then it could be in anything.depending on yeast.
this leads me to believe that it is a combination of oxidation along with slow growing flora? and with the right
"food" for it

[Liquid_Luv]

Dunder, I am not saying or even suggesting that yeast = Rancio Profile... only that a particular researcher has evidence that the strain of yeast makes a difference as to what compounds will be formed in the wash that would then develope under the right conditions, ie. oxygen and temperature, combined with the acids and sugars in the wood, to form the Ketones and Esters that create the profile. I am travelling presently, so can't really keep up with this till later.

Cheers!

[Liquid_Luv]

OK,who is daring? with more research, the bottles of scotch with rancio also had some sort of "mildew"
or mold growing in them.this settles to bottom of bottle.this only happens in 40+year old,so it mite
be that long aging,leads to oxidized alcohol in witch lets the mold grow? none of the distilleries will
own up to this.

I have never seen mold growing in a bottle of spirits of 40% abv or more... although I have seen mold growing on and in the corks of very old wine bottles and on occasion on the corks of poorly stored spirit bottles... but not actually in the spirits themselves, unless dislodged from the cork and fallen into the spirits... but dead.

Ya i was wondering about that also but its seems that molds will grow on/in alcohol if there is some sugar or other food
for it to do so.it seems that molds are grown in/on alcohol/sugar solutions as this will kill bacteria but let molds grow.

Reminds me of something we learnt back in grade school biology ‘bout a million years ago… or so it seems… Mould is a colony of bacteria… take Acetobacter for example… they are a bacteria that love alcohol… they eat it up, and spit out vinegar… they form mould on the surface which becomes a lump of floating Jelly [Mother of Vinegar]… in short, they taught us that Mould = Bacteria.

I question this, as rancio in spirits is oxidation, not something added.
the first 3 years of aging the most changes take place.
in about a decade it starts slowing down .
after about 2 decades woody taste takes over and its hard to tell one whiskey from another.
after 3 decades,whisky can start to loose all original flavors.and all taste the same.
at this time it starts to become "rancio" or over oxidized and have a "cognac" sort of flavor.
as for this happening in the bottle with modern seals it won’t, but with old bottles it could if corks
dry out and lets air in.

First, let’s look at all factors that must be involved in the “Rancio Profile”… all of the following must be included…

The right combination of wash ingredients [possibly] and perhaps even the yeast strain, will form the right precursors which will then be converted over time, in the presence of enough Oxygen, combined with the elements extracted from wood [specifically from, but perhaps not exclusively, Oak]…

So, a) The profile doesn’t happen in the bottle, but rather in the barrel.

b)Although the biggest changes occur within the first 3 years the spirits are on Oak… Rancio is the last stage in chemical conversion to occur in the spirits… long after everything else has had it’s turn.

c) "not something added"...Really??? Yes, although oxidation is an essential part of the equation [added Oxygen]… several other things are added to the spirits that contain the correct profile to start with[not all spirits can produce a Rancio Profile]… all the elements that are found in the wood.

One more thing to ponder…
Rancio has been originally associated with fruit based spirits [sugar in the form of Fructose]… the fact that only a few old whiskeys [ made from grains… no fructose there]have been found to share this distinction could well be as Tater hypothesized… due to the repurposing of previously used barrels. Some Scotch Whiskey that has been found to have the profile, has been aged for over 18 years in Oloroso Sherry Barrels [Yep fruit based], Many Rums are aged in old Sherry casks as well… others are blended with up to 5% sherry… Caramelized sugars are often added to Rum for color, often these coloring syrups are inverted [inverted sugars contain 50% Fructose, yep fruit sugars again!]