Home Distiller

I just threw those out to stimulate thinking. Peltier cooling is probably not practical, but it would be fun to mess with. I think there's a number of guys here that use radiators to cool their water as they recycle it with a pump. Lots of ways to skin this cat.
I keep going back to Mason Jar's clamp-on cooling fins as the ultimate in simple and versatile. I may buy some for a reflux condenser.

Cheers

Swag wrote:I just threw those out to stimulate thinking. Peltier cooling is probably not practical, but it would be fun to mess with.

I understand. I think peltiers have a lot of potential but the price was way high. I'm gald that my info was outdated and they seem to have come down a lot. Just spotted a 62mm 545w peltier on ebay for $41. One thing that I can't get out of my mind is that one side gets hot and the other cold.

I think there's a number of guys here that use radiators to cool their water as they recycle it with a pump. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

True but these units only use the liquid in the lines. Similar cat skinning method but in a tidier package.

I keep going back to Mason Jar's clamp-on cooling fins as the ultimate in simple and versatile. I may buy some for a reflux condenser.

I remember running into some fanless cpu coolers when reading mason jar's thread. Things where huge compared to a standard heatsink and fan but it made me realize that things are really a matter of give and take. I mean a leibig or dephleg are great but if your stillin spot has no plumbing then those simple solutions are not that simple.

Bagasso wrote: I understand. I think peltiers have a lot of potential but the price was way high. I'm gald that my info was outdated and they seem to have come down a lot. Just spotted a 62mm 545w peltier on ebay for $41. One thing that I can't get out of my mind is that one side gets hot and the other cold.

You can also get power back out if you have a decent temperature differential. There are units you can put on things like an exhaust pipe which generate usable power. Don't know if it's cost effective, but they make 'em.

I remember running into some fanless cpu coolers when reading mason jar's thread. Things where huge compared to a standard heatsink and fan but it made me realize that things are really a matter of give and take. I mean a leibig or dephleg are great but if your stillin spot has no plumbing then those simple solutions are not that simple.

The nice thing about radiator fins is that you just slap some pipe in them, build a simple enclosure, mount the fans and you're done. You don't need any particular building skills or expensive tools, which will appeal to guys with limited resources. Being a lifetime toolaholic, I have a full shop and can build most anything I dream up. However, I'm thinking of the guy in an apartment with just a few hand tools. The next one I build will be simple enough for that guy to replicate.

Cheers

Swag wrote:You can also get power back out if you have a decent temperature differential. There are units you can put on things like an exhaust pipe which generate usable power. Don't know if it's cost effective, but they make 'em.

They are actually the same thing. Apply electricity and they create a temperature differential. Apply a temperature differential and they generate electricity.

My idea is to apply electricity and attach the hot side to the boiler and the cold side to the condensor. Basically like this:

I'm thinking of the guy in an apartment with just a few hand tools. The next one I build will be simple enough for that guy to replicate.

I agree. I'm just saying that a simple solution in one situation might not be that simple in another. An SSH condensor might be simpler than the build you have in mind for someone with the plumbing.

The parent site has a drawing of a finned tube condensor with a regular fan blowing across it. If you are willing to drop the power of the heat source you might be able to get away with using the finned tube even without the fan(s). That is what I meant with things being a give and take.

Swag wrote: I keep going back to Mason Jar's clamp-on cooling fins as the ultimate in simple and versatile.

Actually mine was even simpler than that. It's just a copper pipe with fins already attached.
I didn't really have to do anything except make a mount for the fans.

Swag wrote: The nice thing about radiator fins is that you just slap some pipe in them, build a simple enclosure, mount the fans and you're done. You don't need any particular building skills or expensive tools, which will appeal to guys with limited resources.

Exactly! I have very few tools and even fewer skills
Keep up the good work swag, I can't wait to see your next build

Swag wrote:I'm glad you guys like it, it's been fun to build. I was originally planning on orienting the pipes lengthwise down the sink, but I couldn't figure out a way to drill a 9" long hole without cutting the sink in half again. I suppose I could have bought a longer bit, but I'm too cheap.
It will be oriented with the copper top and bottom, with a 45 degree tilt like the last one was, and the fans on the side. I hadn't thought about it as a reflux condenser. With the pipes going through lengthwise it might be feasible. I'll give it some thought.

Cheers

If you drilled a long pilot hole then drilled it from either end you could drill the 9 inches easily

I really like the design
If I was only running a pot still I would build one of these.

pulsetech wrote: If you drilled a long pilot hole then drilled it from either end you could drill the 9 inches easily

I really like the design
If I was only running a pot still I would build one of these.

I purposely left a gap between the spacers to act as a drill guide, then I gradually increased the hole size to stay accurate. You are right though, it could be done with a regular bit from both ends. One of the problems when you start to drill deep, especially with the larger bits, is keeping the work stable. Clamping it in a good X-Y drill press vice is the best solution, but I don't have one. I do have a vice that I could clamp to the table, but I haven't made any clamps yet. I know, excuses, excuses...
I may give it a try down the road.

Cheers

Interesting idea. I guess that the hot side of the peltier would have to be considerably hotter that the boiler temp in order for efficient heat extraction. If you can put one on an exhaust pipe, a boiler should be no problem. A good recycling of energy too.
How about using a peltier device to power the fans? It would be a closed loop with the heat supplying all the energy for cooling. That would be really slick.

Ha, it looks doable! Check this video outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XupSQyOT6xE .

Like Johnny Five, the little self aware robot from the 80's movie "Short Circuit" INPUT, NEED MORE INPUT!!! Great stuff, keep it coming! Riku published a still with fin tube years ago that used just ambient air for reflux and product condenser if my old brain is remembering correctly. Your forced air greatly increases the possible out but....
This is a ten of ten post, exploring the unknown...

Swag wrote:Interesting idea. I guess that the hot side of the peltier would have to be considerably hotter that the boiler temp in order for efficient heat extraction.

I don't think you have grasped how the peltier works. When you plug it in it acts like a heat pump, one side gets hot and the other side gets cold. The way I have drawn it out it is the heating source for the boiler and cooling source for the condensor.

There are no other heaters or fans although, in practice. one side or the other might need a helping hand.

Bagasso wrote: I don't think you have grasped how the peltier works. When you plug it in it acts like a heat pump, one side gets hot and the other side gets cold. The way I have drawn it out it is the heating source for the boiler and cooling source for the condensor.

There are no other heaters or fans although, in practice. one side or the other might need a helping hand.

No, you're right. the water in the boiler would transfer the heat nicely. Brain fart...

Look what I found on the doorstep last night.



This is one of those do-it-yourself radiant heater fins. It's 12" long, 4" wide and fits around a 1-1/4" pipe. It is claimed to radiate 1500 + watts of heat per foot (without forced air).
I was going to cut it in half and make two side by side condensing columns, but for the sake of simplicity I'll do one long unit instead.



This is going to be a reflux condenser, so controlling the fans' output is important. There're are a few ways to do that, and I haven't decided which method I'm going to use yet. Also, controlling the temperature of one column is a lot easier than two.
I replaced the solid steel connecting rods with threaded 10-24 rods. This allows me something to attach the fan frame to.
I'll use a 14" piece of pipe in the center. In the picture above you can see the clamps that hold the two halves together. These also create a nice tight bond against the pipe.
More fun...

Cheers

Swag wrote:This is one of those do-it-yourself radiant heater fins. It's 12" long, 4" wide and fits around a 1-1/4" pipe. It is claimed to radiate 1500 + watts of heat per foot (without forced air).

That looks nice but the specs I found say 1527 BTU which a BTU to Watt converter turned into 447.52 watts.

Go with pwm for your fan controller. I messed around a lot with pwm for my stir plate build. EBay has descent controllers quite cheap. Around $10
I can get you a link if you want. Look at the 5 1/4 bay computer fan controllers. Everything you could ever want including temp control and rpm readout. Just add a 12vdc wall wort for power and your good to go.

Bagasso wrote:

Swag wrote:This is one of those do-it-yourself radiant heater fins. It's 12" long, 4" wide and fits around a 1-1/4" pipe. It is claimed to radiate 1500 + watts of heat per foot (without forced air).

That looks nice but the specs I found say 1527 BTU which a BTU to Watt converter turned into 447.52 watts.

Thanks for the correction, I have too much crap floating through my head.
That's actually good though. Too much cooling is difficult to control.

pulsetech wrote:Go with pwm for your fan controller. I messed around a lot with pwm for my stir plate build. EBay has descent controllers quite cheap. Around $10
I can get you a link if you want. Look at the 5 1/4 bay computer fan controllers. Everything you could ever want including temp control and rpm readout. Just add a 12vdc wall wort for power and your good to go.

Yes, that would work, thanks. Even easier for a small ac load is a simple light dimmer. I'm only drawing about 50 watts for the fans. Other ideas: one fan could be turned off, or you could switch the fans from being in parallel to being in series. Even a "shutter" could be used to restrict the air flow. I'll have to run it to see how much fine control I actually need.

Cheers

I thought they were 12 vdc fans like most computer fans. no problems
If you wanted temp control those pc fan controllers are great and the 12vdc fans are in everything. I pulled a few out of old PC power supplies
that I use to cool my element controller ( that I never use anymore)

pulsetech wrote:I thought they were 12 vdc fans like most computer fans. no problems
If you wanted temp control those pc fan controllers are great and the 12vdc fans are in everything. I pulled a few out of old PC power supplies
that I use to cool my element controller ( that I never use anymore)

Light dimmers are similar to a PWM in the way they work. They use a circuit which only conducts for part of the current cycle. I do have some 12 vdc fans, a 30 amp PWM (overkill here) and several power supplies, but I'm trying to keep it simple.
Speaking of simple... The easiest thing to do with the fans would be to glue them directly on the fins. It's quick and dirty but it would work just fine. if it's being used as a product condenser you don't even need control, just plug 'em in. It would give your still the redneck touch.

"Speaking of simple... The easiest thing to do with the fans would be to glue them directly on the fins"
Zip ties would work also

shadylane wrote:"Speaking of simple... The easiest thing to do with the fans would be to glue them directly on the fins"
Zip ties would work also

I didn't want to say it, but...duct tape

Swag wrote:

shadylane wrote:"Speaking of simple... The easiest thing to do with the fans would be to glue them directly on the fins"
Zip ties would work also

I didn't want to say it, but...duct tape

Balin wire

Swag wrote:

pulsetech wrote:I thought they were 12 vdc fans like most computer fans. no problems
If you wanted temp control those pc fan controllers are great and the 12vdc fans are in everything. I pulled a few out of old PC power supplies
that I use to cool my element controller ( that I never use anymore)

Light dimmers are similar to a PWM in the way they work. They use a circuit which only conducts for part of the current cycle. I do have some 12 vdc fans, a 30 amp PWM (overkill here) and several power supplies, but I'm trying to keep it simple.
Speaking of simple... The easiest thing to do with the fans would be to glue them directly on the fins. It's quick and dirty but it would work just fine. if it's being used as a product condenser you don't even need control, just plug 'em in. It would give your still the redneck touch.

No problems. You mentioned earlier that you want to control the fans by temp. I understand how leading edge and trailing edge dimming works

I just wrap unrolled copper pot scrubbers around the top half of the worm and it increases the radiative surface area enough to do the job, air cooled.

francis wrote:I just wrap unrolled copper pot scrubbers around the top half of the worm and it increases the radiative surface area enough to do the job, air cooled.

More info please. How much heat are you putting in?

What diameter and how long is your coil.

Bagasso wrote:

francis wrote:I just wrap unrolled copper pot scrubbers around the top half of the worm and it increases the radiative surface area enough to do the job, air cooled.

More info please. How much heat are you putting in?

What diameter and how long is your coil.

I've tried this with a couple of micro still designs, a simple column packed with SS scrubbers, a spiral still design I came up with, a hybrid design. I'm putting in about 300 Watts using a submerged heating element in an insulated boiler. The temperature just before it enters the worm is around 80C. I didn't need to wrap pot scrubbers that far down. By the time the scrubbers stop it's pretty much room temp.

Diameter, LOL, I think it's 1/4" I'll have to check. It's 10' long I think. The first 5' has the unwound pot scrubbers wrapped around them. It works well, I was just playing so I didn't really measure. I will do that.

I'm in Canada and my garage is about 13C. My wife forbade me from distilling in the house. But I thought if I needed more cooling I could put an ultrasonic mister near the top of the worm; I didn't need it at all though.

francis wrote:Diameter, LOL, I think it's 1/4" I'll have to check. It's 10' long I think. The first 5' has the unwound pot scrubbers wrapped around them. It works well, I was just playing so I didn't really measure. I will do that.

Thanks. Those rough numbers are a good starting point.

I'm in Canada and my garage is about 13C. My wife forbade me from distilling in the house. But I thought if I needed more cooling I could put an ultrasonic mister near the top of the worm; I didn't need it at all though.

I had also thought about an ultrasonic mister to use water without really using a container when my coil in a bucket started leaking. Then these air cooling threads popped up.

Finally got a piece of pipe soldered up. The adapter is a 2" bushing, which has the same OD as a piece of 2" pipe. This fits right into the connector I have at the top of the column.



I used some acrylic sheet that I had to build the frame. I screwed two lengths of aluminum angle stock in the sides, which not only gave the cover structural integrity, but also provided a mount for the fans. The fans are mounted to a piece of acrylic in the middle, which I glued between the sides.



I didn't use the stock clamps, but instead just clamped the bottom of the frame together. That holds the fins in nice and tight.



Here it is mounted on top of the VM column.



I haven't put together a control box yet, but I have a variac and tested the fans with it. That provided full control from zero to full power. I'm going to try and test on the rig later this week. Work is piling up around the house and wifey is losing her patience (a common hazard with this hobby).

Cheers

Swag, did you ever get to test this? I've got something similar rattling around in my brain that I hope to start on soon when I get my drill press.