Panela goodness

[nerdybrewer]

I put in 100 Lbs in about 65 gallons - got it to the right temperature and added yeast.
First I had to go to Costco and buy more yeast.
Had about 5 other errands to run before I could do that.
So here it is 7:15pm and just getting in to post this.

I also heated up about 20 gallons water and dissolved an additional 50 Lbs Panela to feed it in.
If the ferment is active I'll add it in maybe some every 12 hours or so.
Not sure about the best protocol as this is a first for me.

[JoeyZR1]

I put 20lbs of jaggery, 14lbs of regular sugar, 4 gallons of AG backset and 5 lbs of ground/cooked corn into a new batch of UJ today, with a big fat US-05 starter. I had expected a higher gravity from the jaggery, or I would have bought more. Ah well, live and learn, gen 2 will get a full load of jaggery.

what is jaggery??? I guess I could google it but I have been following this topic.


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[JoeyZR1]

I just googled it. Y'all pay $12.5 a kilo?


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[nerdybrewer]

I just googled it. Y'all pay $12.5 a kilo?

Nope.

You can pay that much for sure, but we don't pay that.

[Oldvine Zin]

google can be your friend but for panela around a buck a pound

[nerdybrewer]

google can be your friend but for panela around a buck a pound

That's the price when you order half a ton.
It's considerably more per pound in small batches.

[JoeyZR1]

Nerdy brewer I noticed that all or most of y'all live in the Pacific Northwest. I read some posts about some of the distillers meeting at "Proof" Is that a convention out there ?


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[JoeyZR1]

google can be your friend but for panela around a buck a pound

That's the price when you order half a ton.
It's considerably more per pound in small batches.

i just contacted a supplier and they are working on a quote for a ton of panela. Maybe if there are some distillers here in the Southeast, maybe we can do what y'all did. I won't need 2000lbs. But I would be willing to pass the savings on for some of it.


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[nerdybrewer]

google can be your friend but for panela around a buck a pound

That's the price when you order half a ton.
It's considerably more per pound in small batches.

i just contacted a supplier and they are working on a quote for a ton of panela. Maybe if there are some distillers here in the Southeast, maybe we can do what y'all did. I won't need 2000lbs. But I would be willing to pass the savings on for some of it.


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That's what we did.
I talked with Sugar Daddy and we settled on a price, it was shipped out and distributed to members who paid to reimburse the expense.
It worked out very well for us, if you want more details please PM me about it.

Now I am out, I have a ferment going with 150 Lbs of Panela and it's going to be a while before I work through it but eventually I will want more.
It's very good stuff, it ferments out quickly.
I use dunder but nothing else besides the Panela, water and yeast.

[raketemensch]

I found the jaggery at $10 for a 10lb block in a local Indian grocery. It's not as clean as the panela everyone else is using, but I'm not complaining.

[JoeyZR1]

Thanks ! When I get some of the prices in , I will post to this topic. BTW do all of you try to go to Proof?


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[Bushman]

Thanks ! When I get some of the prices in , I will post to this topic. BTW do all of you try to go to Proof?


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I missed proof this year but usually most of the members go to Proof.

[JoeyZR1]

What city?


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[Sugar Daddy]

Comparing Indian jaggery (loaded with sulfer and is processed-- just taste it) to this panela these guys have is not fair. Our stuff is hand ground and easy to work with. Please see the photos.

[Bushman]

What city?


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Seattle

[JoeyZR1]

It seems that most of the people on this topic are from up there. I am in Alabama. Haven't did any rum. I am planning on making some.


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[Bushman]

It seems that most of the people on this topic are from up there. I am in Alabama. Haven't did any rum. I am planning on making some.


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That is because we all got together and order a large shipment from Sugar Daddy to get a discount so many of us are doing rum runs right now.

[nerdybrewer]

Comparing Indian jaggery (loaded with sulfer and is processed-- just taste it) to this panela these guys have is not fair. Our stuff is hand ground and easy to work with. Please see the photos.

Sulfur is not your friend, when making anything to ferment and then distill it pays to pay attention to your ingredients.
Good in = good out (allowing for proper protocols and practices).

This Panela is great stuff, I brought a 3Lb bag of it in for the family to use instead of brown sugar.
It ferments quickly and completely and produces a flavorful rum.

My current ferment is 70 gallons that has in it 10 gallons dunder from my previous batch, 100Lb Panela, and about a half cup fresh bakers yeast that I put in a bowl with some water and a bit of the dissolved Panela. It had quadrupled in size in the bowl when I pitched it into the wash.
I use an aquarium heater and a Sous Vide controller to maintain a temperature of 85F.
I also dissolved another 50Lb Panela in my 20 gallon brew pot and let it cool over night.
I'll start feeding that into the ferment at 24 hours and then add more every 12 hours or so.
This is to try and give the yeast a less stressful more gradual ferment in hopes of producing a better product.

[raketemensch]

I thought my jaggery would be good and raw, but it stunk like mad by the 3rd day. I was assuming that it got infected, but there've been no visual signs...

Now I'm thinking that the stank was sulfur.

SugarDaddy, is this group buy happening through your company, or are you just ordering in bulk and spreading it around? I rent a space in a large industrial building where I could easily receive pallets, maybe I could set up a tri-state area group buy?

[MichiganCornhusker]

Comparing Indian jaggery (loaded with sulfer and is processed-- just taste it) to this panela these guys have is not fair. Our stuff is hand ground and easy to work with. Please see the photos.

+1
Before getting My Sweetness from SD I had bought a few chunks online. They were nothing like the fresh juicy blocks I got from Daddy. I ended up not even using the online stuff, just tossed them in the trash.

I just finished up a panela run and the spirit is wonderful. I found a curious fruitiness in the later heads that I'm tempted to blend into the final product.
I did the feed method, adding panela to the fermentation as it went, and I wound up with 7 quarts of hearts, and only 2 quarts of heads. And I'm considering tossing one of those quarts in for the fruitiness.

Excellent product, excellent spirit!

[raketemensch]

I found a curious fruitiness in the later heads that I'm tempted to blend into the final product.

We talk a lot about adding more tails if we're going to let the product age longer, but noone ever mentions this about heads, even in the brandy threads. Does it smooth out, but just take longer?

[MichiganCornhusker]

We talk a lot about adding more tails if we're going to let the product age longer, but noone ever mentions this about heads, even in the brandy threads. Does it smooth out, but just take longer?

I've become more comfortable with some of the flavors in late heads.
Jimbo is an artist when it comes to blending in some of the flavors in heads. I noticed this early on as his whiskey has more character and flavor that mine made with very conservative cuts.
The heads I'm taking about in this panela run are not at all like the first heads, or acetone, or anything like that. They are in the last jar before it transitions to ultra smooth hearts.
I think I could add it and add the fruity characteristics to the batch without it becoming harsh or needing to smooth out.

[der wo]

We talk a lot about adding more tails if we're going to let the product age longer, but noone ever mentions this about heads, even in the brandy threads. Does it smooth out, but just take longer?

It smoothes out faster than tails, if you have an aging system, what lets the spirit breathe. If you let evaporate 20% of the spirit within a year of aging, you can (imo you should) extremely reduce the fores and heads cut. With a reflux still something like per 10l low wines 30ml fores and 70ml heads.

[Jimbo]

We talk a lot about adding more tails if we're going to let the product age longer, but noone ever mentions this about heads, even in the brandy threads. Does it smooth out, but just take longer?

I've become more comfortable with some of the flavors in late heads.
Jimbo is an artist when it comes to blending in some of the flavors in heads. I noticed this early on as his whiskey has more character and flavor that mine made with very conservative cuts.
The heads I'm taking about in this panela run are not at all like the first heads, or acetone, or anything like that. They are in the last jar before it transitions to ultra smooth hearts.
I think I could add it and add the fruity characteristics to the batch without it becoming harsh or needing to smooth out.

haha, 'artist' I dunno. The flavors hiding in our hooch can be pretty elusive to capture. Ive been making brandy the longest, more than 2 decades, and thats where I (had) to learn about heads and that tricky transition zone to hearts (the hard way) because all the fruity esters from fruit (and yeast) come over early. Many are lost in the early heads, which you cant use, but there are some to be captured in that later transition zone to hearts, or missed completely if youre too conservative in the cuts. Too much heads on the other hand and the the drink is toast, and will be sharp and never mellow out with age, Der Wo and I humbly disagree with each other on this point without getting into discussion about explicit evaporation in open jars, which I dont consider part of normal aging. Anyway, tails are easier, some of them are needed also for complexity, and they DO change dramatically with age. So its pretty easy to get a little tails in there (1st jar that transistions is pretty obvious) and 6 months later in a barrel they are delicious. Whiskey is similar to brandy for early fruity esters from the grains and yeast, but even trickier to capture as there's less of them than from a fruit source for brandy.

[der wo]

Yes. We don't need to discuss evaporation here again. But perhaps it's good to know, that evaporation at least is an option, if the heads cut was too early.

[nerdybrewer]

We talk a lot about adding more tails if we're going to let the product age longer, but noone ever mentions this about heads, even in the brandy threads. Does it smooth out, but just take longer?

It smoothes out faster than tails, if you have an aging system, what lets the spirit breathe. If you let evaporate 20% of the spirit within a year of aging, you can (imo you should) extremely reduce the fores and heads cut. With a reflux still something like per 10l low wines 30ml fores and 70ml heads.

Since the thread has meandered into aging I think this is appropriate, if it's getting too far off topic I apologize in advance.
I have read and listened to masters who have been doing this for decades and to those who have been using small(ish) oak barrels and I decided from what I was learning that using barrels was the best way for me to get the flavor I have been looking for. That and as Jimbo just mentioned including enough heads and tails to get character, fruitiness, flavors in the finished product.
This is the summer of ramping up the supply so that I can have aging stock that I won't be able to get to for years.
First of course I'll need to determine my consumption rate in order to plan on the amount to replace every year so that I'm always fully stocked with good aged spirits.
Of course I'll also be experimenting, as I read in Jimbo's Panela thread LWTCS mentioned the use of exotic woods from South America so I've placed an order for some Brazilian Rosewood.
It will be fun to discover what that does to step fermented Panela Rum.

[raketemensch]

It smoothes out faster than tails, if you have an aging system, what lets the spirit breathe. If you let evaporate 20% of the spirit within a year of aging, you can (imo you should) extremely reduce the fores and heads cut.

Personally, and I realize this is sacrilege, I'm not into oak tea. I like mine white, so I've been trying to come up with ways for it to age without barreling or being sealed into a bottle.

For speed-aging (really just for experimenting) I'm working on a system where there's an intake pipe immersed in the booze and a vacuum on top, pulling air through the booze and out the top. I'm trying to find a low-intensity vacuum pump, probably 12v, to run it. It's basically a bong with a pump replacing a mouth and lungs.

For normal, long-term aging I'm thinking of using a cork stopper, and passing a hypodermic needle through it, so that air can escape, but very, very slowly.

Sorry for the hijack, I'll stop here.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm not into oak tea.

I felt the same way.
I have under oaked, over oaked, and mega oaked various whiskeys that I've made and I've never thought they tasted like oak tea, and never felt like they were over oaked. I like the flavors in all of them.

But the first time I put oak in my rum I thought it was terrible. To me it was the first time I felt like I had experienced the "oak tea". I did not like the combination of flavors at all.
So I just set that jar aside and ignored it for about a year and a half. I tasted it recently and discovered that it had morphed into something that I do really like. So much so that I'm doing a whole 'nother batch to put on oak for long term aging.

But I do still prefer my own rum white, and one run off the pot still.

[nerdybrewer]

It certainly does need at least a year.
But after that it's awesome!

[nerdybrewer]

I have started an experiment with Brazilian Rosewood.
A partial stick toasted for 25 minutes at 400F.
This may be a bit too much.