FLUTE TALK

[orbit]

Thanks RB- I was toying with the idea of using one for the graham as well just for shits and kicks, you can get copper float balls from the scrap for peanuts, they generally use lead solder but it's nowhere near the product so no probs.
with regards to plate configurations has anyone tried using any type of packing, maybe even having just one perforated plate at the top of the column and the rest filled with scrubbers or rings etc- maybe this would help overcome the efficiency problems normally associated with packing in larger diameter columns by spreading the refluxed distillate more evenly.I'm sure the answers are already there but I can't find them-
cheers.

[olddog]

You can use whatever combination or number of plates you wish, but the introduction of scrubbers into the column could remove the flavor we are trying to retain
But try it with scrubbers and report back.



OD

[Prairiepiss]

Nice dephlagmabulb. Orbit. Just had a thought. You were taking using the scrubbers to hold the plates in line right? What if you made the plates just small enough to fit in the pipe and be able to slide them to the position you want them. And instead of using scrubbys use SS hose clamps on the outside of the column around the plate. When you tighten the clamp it would hold the plate in place with pressure. Probably seal the walls more too. It mite not be pretty but it just mite work. Then you could move them or take them out at will.

[orbit]

Thanks alot for the advice- I'm having a bit of a nightmare with the stainless which has warped slightly around the sight glass ferrule- hopefully I can grind it back on the inside enough to lower a good enough fitting plate tree down from above- if that's not possible then I gather filling a 4" diameter column this short with packing is a bit of a waste of time? I thought I was saving money with the stainless but I reckon I should have stuck with the 4" copper now- bugger.

[Prairiepiss]

Orbit what about doing up from the bottom? You said the sightglass hole is where it is warped. What about the other end?

[orbit]

Hi there,the column below the glass continues about 65cm before tapering to a 2" ferrule- so there's no possibility of access from below,unless I make another cut and add 4" ferrules and a clamp- I'd rather not spend any more cash- maybe I'll come back to that later and in the mean time try a sequence of distribution plates or centering collars with scrubbers and column insulation and see what happens.
cheers.

[orbit]

I'll add that I just did a water/vinegar run and the dephegmater seems a little too large in terms of water capacity and the only way to get it to stop 100% refluxing is to drain it,I'm not sure whether this is a problem or not but it does mean that it's either on or off and nothing in between- I realise that it'll behave differently in a spirit run but if anything it'll be even more effective-I'll give it a go with a couple of sieve plates at the top followed by scrubbers in the lower 2/3 and insulating the column and post my results.I guess this would be the wrong thread tho?

[olddog]

I'll add that I just did a water/vinegar run and the dephegmater seems a little too large in terms of water capacity and the only way to get it to stop 100% refluxing is to drain it

You need a valve in the system to regulate the flow of coolant through the dephlegmater, if you put this on the coolant exit, you can keep the pressure up without overcooling, also any changes you make should be given a few minutes to take effect, they don't happen instantly. You only need a trickle going through to do the job.


OD

[orbit]

Hi OD-thanks for the response- before I tried draining the condenser I switched off the flow completely and it was still in 100% reflux about 20min later- maybe I could also use a heaftier burner- it's only one ring about 15cm diameter.

[olddog]

maybe I could also use a heaftier burner- it's only one ring about 15cm diameter.

The burner I use for my keg would be 25/30cm diameter.


OD

[orbit]

I did wonder about that- I guess a bigger one would speed the whole process up,along with insulating the column.

[LWTCS]

Yes your defleg is very cool but quite a bit of cooling. Change in adjustments will occur with lots oc lag.
Thats one reason why the shotgun design is a good choice....porportionately good amount of available cooling surface and yet one can still build it small enough to be more responsive to adjustments

[violentblue]

theres something to be said for larger volumes of water in the defleg, changes won't be instantaneous, which can be good, but yes does require a lot more adjustments.

[blind drunk]

... changes won't be instantaneous, which can be good ... .

Why's that? Curious.

[LWTCS]

violentblue wrote:
... changes won't be instantaneous, which can be good ... .

Why's that? Curious.

Recon some of that may depend on the size of yer boiler charge.

20 liter charge.......I'd want responsive behavior.

[blind drunk]

violentblue wrote:
... changes won't be instantaneous, which can be good ... .

Why's that? Curious.

Recon some of that may depend on the size of yer boiler charge.

20 liter charge.......I'd want responsive behavior.

That's why I was asking; I'm thinking you always want a fast response to an adjustment.

[violentblue]

for the sake of consistency. control is also good. its a matter of what you're set up for.
if you run the same thing the same way every time, you want slow adjustments not sharp. but most folks use their equipment for a variety of washes, so then its best to have control. each have their benefits and downfalls, but control is usually better in most situations.

[LWTCS]

For me,, I like responsive behavior (wish I had more) because after I re-equalize from drawing off heads,,,I like to run a little quick to steal a few jars of tasty fast hearts before I push tails up too fast. Then,, throw her back into 100% reflux,,,let it re-stack and collect the remainder as a cleaner product.

Kinda like two runs in one..

[exon]

Great looking onion, Orbit!
I like it!
exon

[Mr.Spooky]

quick question an a shotgun product condensor,,,, is 10" too small??? it has 5, 1/2" tubes through it...
thanks
spooky

[Kentucky shinner]

That should be fine spooky. I think it will work well for you.
KS

[Mr.Spooky]

thanks KS,, i was thinkin that it would be OK,,, but i just needed some reasurance.
spooky

[Prairiepiss]

Glad to hear that to. Since mine has 5 1/2" X 11". Spooky is yours a 2" or 3" outside shell?

[olddog]

That should be fine Spooky, on Flute 2 I have reduced the size of the product condenser from the one used on the original Flute, the shell is now 12-14"long with 4 1/2"tubes, by the time you fit the couplers for the reducers it makes it a bit longer though, but it knocks down everything.


OD

[Mr.Spooky]

Glad to hear that to. Since mine has 5 1/2" X 11". Spooky is yours a 2" or 3" outside shell?

im using a 3" shell..
spook

[Mr.Spooky]

That should be fine Spooky, on Flute 2 I have reduced the size of the product condenser from the one used on the original Flute, the shell is now 12-14"long with 4 1/2"tubes, by the time you fit the couplers for the reducers it makes it a bit longer though, but it knocks down everything.


OD

10/4 im using soft solder on everything,, so well see how it goes. i think that anything 2" amd under is best with MAPP.
iv been using oxy acc and its REAL easy to scorch the flux on smaller sized copper.
im leARNing alot about heating this stuff.
spooky

[Prairiepiss]

You could always do what I did and add 4 1/4" tubes. I don't know how much effect they will have? But it sure looks cool.

And I'm in the same boat learning the hard solder thang.

I got some oxygen today. But its raining in my workshop!

[olddog]

I usually fit the plates with the holes for the tubes into the shell using hard solder, then solder the tubes into the end plates with soft solder, this prevents joints being un-soldered. I tried doing it with soft solder originally without success.

iv been using oxy acc and its REAL easy to scorch the flux on smaller sized copper.

You don't have to use flux with hard solder, it's like brazing.


OD

[Mr.Spooky]

im kinda of a moron ,,,, ill spend 32$$ on a copper fitting, but im too cheap to buy hard stick soulder. if this soft solder dont work,, ill just have to bust the piggy bank
spooky

[Kentucky shinner]

I hard solder the tubes into the plates the slide that into the shell. Then I hard solder the plates into the shell. We all have our own way of doing this stuff. Pretty cool.
Pics spooky we need pics..