Urn Boiler + Column Length plan check.

[Zeki]

Hey Everyone,

Finally going to build a boka 2" slant plate still. I haven't bought anything yet but plan to over the next few days. I just wanted to run my choices by the experts to get any advice/opinions before I take the plunge.

For my Boiler, I am planning on buying a 30L Urn (used for heating water for coffee etc) like the following: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/30-litre-tea-cof ... 4150ecc844

Has dual concealed elements with 1800 and 1200 watts of power. Adjustable temperature settings from 30-110 Celcius. Do you guys think this would work well as a boiler? The Capacity is fine for me as I usually mix 25L washes. I would also insulate it. My greatest concern at this stage is that the urn won't be able to hold the weight of my column. Does anyone have experience with using a urn? Also would I just set the temperature to the max temperature or should I aim for maybe a lower to temperature to just boil the alcohol? I don't know if this would work, I haven't found much to read about using adjustable temperatures in boilers.

I am planning on about 40" of 2" copper column with copper packing, with a further 12" for the boka head above this.The column will also be insulated. I believe from what I have read that this sized column will allow me to produce 90+% ABV easily without wasting a great deal of time/power using a high reflux ratio? Though smaller is better for me if possible. I will be following pikluk's build and advice for the construction of this still. For the Joint to the boiler lid, I am planning to follow the design used by Pure Distilling Australia and use a threaded fitting that tightly fits into a hole cut in the lid with washers either side of the lid and a nut on the inside to tighten. Would this work well? The Pure distiling rig actually uses a plastic washer but I am unable to source one that I can definitively prove to be safe exposed to the temperatures and alcohol levels found in the still.

This should a miraculous step up from my 5L potstill !! Please feel to offer any advice you have.

Thanks

[WalkingWolf]

Two questions come to mind.

Is it stainless steel or aluminum?

How thick is the metal?

You've also questioned the units ability to support the weight. My experiences with these types of appliances are that they have primarily been made of aluminum and not a very heavy guage. I'm in the US and maybe it'll be different there. Good Luck.

[kiwistiller]

Has dual concealed elements with 1800 and 1200 watts of power. Adjustable temperature settings from 30-110 Celcius. Do you guys think this would work well as a boiler? The Capacity is fine for me as I usually mix 25L washes. I would also insulate it. My greatest concern at this stage is that the urn won't be able to hold the weight of my column. Does anyone have experience with using a urn? Also would I just set the temperature to the max temperature or should I aim for maybe a lower to temperature to just boil the alcohol? I don't know if this would work, I haven't found much to read about using adjustable temperatures in boilers.

temp settings don't really work on a boiler (physics gets in the way, the bastard), so plan on having to replace this, or leaving it set on max temp, and then controlling by turning on or off individual elements.

[Zeki]

Thanks for the quick replies!!

About the aluminum or stainless issue. I have sent a question through to the person with the urn asking about the wall strength and what it is made of. I also have found (for consirably more) this urn http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-HOT-WA ... 27b0cfdda4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . Made of stainless steel etc.

The only reason I have really looked at the urns is because I absolutely no Idea how to attach my column to a keg. My homebrew store has elements for boilers that only need a hole cut into the body of the boiler and just screw in with a gasket in place. I could easily put 2 of them into the boiler. I just really want to avoid having to get any stainless steel welding done. I have seen people with stainless steel bowls on top of kegs but I can never work out how they manage to attach them securely.

Again thanks for the replies, I do want to try and save money if I can and I am open to using a keg or something if the ideas I have above would work and I can figure out how to attach the bowl to the top of the keg.

[kiwistiller]

attaching a column to a keg is more or less the easiest thing in the world. make an easy flange (search it) and get a tri clamp. Done...

[maheel]

there have been some issues with running concealed elements flat out for a long period (burning them out) have a look at aussie home brewing.com.au (google ahb) i think a few might have these already for brewing beer in.

some of them are that "wound wire" type elements and are nto designed to be run flat out for hr's and hr's

you would also need to disable the thermostat in them to allow then to run flat out and not "cycle".

i also looked at them, but those are my reasons against....

whats your location Zeki ?

[Zeki]

In QLD actually mate,

Talked to homebrew store, I can get the elements for $40 each (1380watts).

I read an interesting article bout stainless steel kegs and stainless steel milk cans. http://www.moonshine-still.com/page18.htm I'd love to find one of the milk cans they show with the flat top etc. Would be a very easy to do modification. Though the keg would be fine I guess.
I'd prefer this method to the easy flange because I can get in and clean the boiler much easier. Just looking round for a cheap stainless steel drum or some such. Doesn't seem to be such a thing but i'll see what I can find. I don't exactly want to pay $100+ dollars just for the drum/keg + the elements on top. Sounds like this kind of boiler is better all round though, with urns sounding too weak and break down too quickly.

Any comments about my column length etc?

Thx again.

[maheel]

you could look at those 25 / 30L SS boilers for homebrew shop stills as a reasonable start and then build you head on it..... but that's going to run you a few $100

the boiler is the hardest bit, like you said 30L sealing drums for free just dont seem to be thick on the ground......

another option to join the head to the lid for the boiler is a 2" copper end cap drilled out and bolted on then some flour paste to seal, someone on here used on and it looks easy

i use a 2" brass nut soldered to some copper plate and bolted on top of my two SS stock pots welded together ugly but effective..... I have a keg but need to get some bit's sorted before i start using it. I was going to strip with the keg.

my "new" 2' boka is a bit taller than yours but i have not run enough in it yet to really decide if i should cut some off it's not that hard to extend or lower a boka

i also have a old copper gravity fed hot water tank that i am thinking of doing something with but it does not have a lid..... yet....

[maheel]

I just looked at that ssbowl keg idea in your link... lot of cutting and drilling if you don't have the gear/

if your just running simple sugar wash like birdwatchers (or turbo's ) you dont really need to "clean" it out, just rinse so easy flange onto a keg is simple a solution

if your going to mash grain then maybe, depends on your way of doing it but.

[Zeki]

Given that I plan to use internal elements I need to cut just to get them in let alone for cleaning lol.

I really don't have the space or desire to use gas to heat it

I'd love ideas on where to find big (30+ L) milk can's in lower queensland region. This is currently my prefered option, due to simple ease.

Or suggestions on how to acquire a SS Keg.

Thanks again.

Also, I have easy access to grinders + drills, though I'd have to find a holesaw bit for SS.

[maheel]

Zeki

you might want to rethink those elements and go for ones that screw in from out side the vessel.

hot water elements etc screw in from outside you just need to weld on the nut.....

yeah i been looking for a SS milk urn for ages....... price wise it might hurt.....

this is why you might have to outlay a few bucks upfront to get the right equipment now to save yourself headaches down the track

have fun

[WalkingWolf]

Zeki
you might want to rethink those elements and go for ones that screw in from out side the vessel.
hot water elements etc screw in from outside you just need to weld on the nut.....
yeah i been looking for a SS milk urn for ages....... price wise it might hurt.....
this is why you might have to outlay a few bucks upfront to get the right equipment now to save yourself headaches down the track
have fun

Good Advice maheel
I started with crappy equipment I bought. In the end, as you struggle with subpar equipment, you will be aggravated for going the conservative route. Now after building several stills of my own I am enjoying the fruits of my labors.

[mozzie26]

I bought one of those cheap urn's from ebay. It really is a bit flimsy. I will try and use it until I can find something else. Was thinking of a 36l stock pot but may be better to find a keg.
Anyone know where to get a keg near Brisbane or the Sunshine Coast Qld?

[Zeki]

Hey thanks again for the responses,

Could somone point me in the direction of these heating elements that go in from the outside? I am only familiar with the ones at the homebrew stores that you have to push through from the inside then screw a nut onto. If you can do the outside elements then an easy flange connection or some such would work fine, because I do only run sugar washes at the moment. Also If I was to run grain washes etc, I have my small pot still or would take it apart and convert it into a large stove top pot so that there is no elements to burn gunk on to. I never intended the boka for anything other then neutrals.

Thx

[eddie]

I bought one of those cheap urn's from ebay. It really is a bit flimsy. I will try and use it until I can find something else. Was thinking of a 36l stock pot but may be better to find a keg.
Anyone know where to get a keg near Brisbane or the Sunshine Coast Qld?

I don't know what it's like in Australia, but where I live, scrap yards are a good place to look for kegs. People who have kegs for which the deposit has expired or don't have paper for or whatever often take them to the scrap guys since the the vendor won't take them back. Craigslist is another good place to look.

[kiwistiller]

know anyone working bars / liquor shops? good places to ask.

As a side note, when a keg goes out of circulation, the brewery who owns it normally loses a fair bit of cash - the deposit doesn't cover the purchase price. For small craft brewers, this is proportionally higher, so if you're removing a keg from the system at the bar / shop end, choose wisely and don't screw over the little guys.

Edit to add to my offtopic rant, in an ideal world you wouldn't be screwing over the big guys either... I'm sure that my logic on leaving craft brewers' kegs alone doesn't really stand up, but whatever. I was having a chat to the brewer (Luke) from Epic Beer a couple of days ago (met him in a pub - he was buying his own beer, hard case ). Very interesting to get his perspective on the industry. He needs to somehow get his hands on a shitload of money for more kegs, as it turns out that people want to buy good beer. Felt sorry for him. He's got his craft brew into export markets though, so good on him (soon to be available in the US).

[maheel]

http://www.smugglers.net.au/index.php?p=1_10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


here's a link for some element ideas,

this one i am quite interested in and a few on AHB.com.au I think have bought them for beer wort boiling

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-2200-WATT-HE ... 43a02f7c34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

you drill your hole in the side of the keg
you insert them through the hole in the top with a bit of wire to "pull" them down into the hole
then put the nut on and tighten up


2200 W would take a while to heat 40-50L of wash but, i was thinking helping with a bit of gas..... using a rambo / mongo burner or something....

the other one with "wiring" is a hot water type, you need to get the right "density" element. and requires a hole and some bolts / gasket or a welded nut screw it in.

Kegs do show up..... but you should get a legal one

[maheel]

ok link again to the element i might use

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-2200-WATT-HE ... 0449384070" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and some info using it from the beer guys (i do beer as well, only just started again... trying all grain )

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum// ... 55&hl=2200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum// ... 46&hl=2200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

they actually look good, drilling the hole will be my issue.....