im new- and here's my setup

[beeraddd]

heres my current setup. only done 2 runs, but its relatively easy(once you get your head around fraction percentages). out of 20 liters of wash, i get 6 liters of 50% spirit with the 1st column. with the 2nd fractional column fitted i get just under 2 liters of 96% spirit. probably could push for more out of it but i'm being conservitive now until i get a better grip on the setup.

makes the nicest vodka. i bring the spirit down to 40% using filtered water and whack it straight in the freezer for a week. i don't why but the freezer definately makes the vodka better!

i give my friends a try of my vodka, and of course they're expecting the usual homebrew crap. but everyone that has had a go of it is genuinely suprised at it's quality. now, all of a sudden, my friends decide to come over and say g'day!

i notice fractional stills aren't too popular amongst this forum. there must be reason i gather?
i'm only new here so any hints or tips would be taken on-board sincerely.

[beeraddd]

maybe of some interest to members on here.
so here's a better picture of my columns de-tached from the boiling unit.

[manu de hanoi]

Fractional stills are very popular here. Did you get that one 2nd hand or straight from alex ?

[loneswinger]

Manu or beeraddd, what am I looking at here? Is that CM on top with a VM take off mid way down? Or is this some sort of a quasi continuous rig, and the mid way down is the injection point? I have not been keeping up with still design.

Thanks in advance,

-Loneswinger

[LWTCS]

Second pic is a better view of the 2 still heads.

(in the second pic) The head on the left is the pot head with smallish liebig condenser.

The head on the right shows the CM condenser at the top of the column with the product condenser below.

[Samohon]

Nice setup beeraddd...
Polished stainless sure is purdy....

Do you have some copper somewhere in the vapour path...

Have fun and stay safe man...

[loneswinger]

Second pic is a better view of the 2 still heads.

(in the second pic) The head on the left is the pot head with smallish liebig condenser.

The head on the right shows the CM condenser at the top of the column with the product condenser below.

Ah ok, that is just a product condenser. It is just welded to the side of the column for support I guess. I was thinking that was an actual pipe connection. I also couldn't tell that the CM output was entering that condenser. Got it now.

Thanks,
-Loneswinger

[LWTCS]

Product condenser turns into a "vapor shooting device" without the CM condenser running.

I'm Joking of course,,,,but not really.

Can that still be put into 100% reflux Beeradd?

[beeraddd]

Fractional stills are very popular here. Did you get that one 2nd hand or straight from alex ?

yeah mate bought it straight from him. really good guy to deal with, and he sure knows his stuff.

[beeraddd]

Product condenser turns into a "vapor shooting device" without the CM condenser running.

I'm Joking of course,,,,but not really.

Can that still be put into 100% reflux Beeradd?

mate. like i said. i'm only a beginner!
i know of reflux and pot stills but i am not entirely sure on the differences between them. i'm guessing reflux would meen the spirit vapour would fall down the colum a fair bit again and again before coming out as the disstilled product?
i have a lot of research to do ,and really need to learn all the abreviations you learn'ed brewers throw around. all i know is how to make my still work.im still learning about everything else.

[Caprimulgus]

beeraddd, I have a limited water supply at home. How's that pink bin working for ya? Big enough? Or do you need to add/change any water while running? Your booiler is the same size as mine, so any thoughts about it would be great.

Your still looks nice. Compact little thing isn't it

[Manback]

This set up is an LM, not a CM. The top of the column penetrates into the head, and a liquid build forms at the bottom of the head. A ball valve is attached to a take-off tube at the bottom.

A few points beeradd:

1) The reflux condenser Alex uses is made from 2m of stainless steel tube. In terms of heat transfer, it is a hopeless little item. Vapour can and does escape out the breather. I'd say cut it open and replace with copper.

2) Alex is budget and has the breather hooked up to the product condenser. This shouldn't be the case. Disconnect it.

3) Alex runs too much power (3000w for spirit run in 2" column). Drop the power by half on your still

4) Alex suggests running the still in full reflux for 5 minutes. You won't get proper separation in 5 minutes. You need to run it in full reflux for a good while.

5) Alex advises taking off 14ml/30sec for 2/3 run, and 7ml/30 sec for the rest of the run. These numbers are both too high, and too specific.. taste and temp should be your guide.. however, he hasn't installed a thermometer, so you might want to do that. Also, a ball valve is going to be very hard to make fine adjustments with.

My mate owns one of these.. we bought the plans for them off him.. but ended up changing every aspect of the design totally.. there are alot of improvements to be made yet

[ozone39]

I like the "BOX" boiler you got there....

[beeraddd]

beeraddd, I have a limited water supply at home. How's that pink bin working for ya? Big enough? Or do you need to add/change any water while running? Your booiler is the same size as mine, so any thoughts about it would be great.

Your still looks nice. Compact little thing isn't it

hey mate. nah the pink bin isn't really working. i have 9L buckets of frozen water i dump in the bin in an attempt to bring temps down. i'm going to use a more powerful pump, and have the returning water enter an old car intercooler with a thermofan attached, before it runs back into the bin.

i have plenty of water available, its just that the state government has started to charge stupidly for any amount used. ($350 quarterly!) so i definately don't want to use any more water than i need to.

[beeraddd]

This set up is an LM, not a CM. The top of the column penetrates into the head, and a liquid build forms at the bottom of the head. A ball valve is attached to a take-off tube at the bottom.

A few points beeradd:

1) The reflux condenser Alex uses is made from 2m of stainless steel tube. In terms of heat transfer, it is a hopeless little item. Vapour can and does escape out the breather. I'd say cut it open and replace with copper.

2) Alex is budget and has the breather hooked up to the product condenser. This shouldn't be the case. Disconnect it.

3) Alex runs too much power (3000w for spirit run in 2" column). Drop the power by half on your still

4) Alex suggests running the still in full reflux for 5 minutes. You won't get proper separation in 5 minutes. You need to run it in full reflux for a good while.

5) Alex advises taking off 14ml/30sec for 2/3 run, and 7ml/30 sec for the rest of the run. These numbers are both too high, and too specific.. taste and temp should be your guide.. however, he hasn't installed a thermometer, so you might want to do that. Also, a ball valve is going to be very hard to make fine adjustments with.

My mate owns one of these.. we bought the plans for them off him.. but ended up changing every aspect of the design totally.. there are alot of improvements to be made yet

hey manback, thanks for the suggestions mate.
im pretty certain my element is only 1100 watts. it is stamped on the black part of the element itself.
i found the valve quite easy to get the recommended ml/per second, really smooth and light when i make tiny adjustments.( i run at 11mls/sec for 2/3rds of run and slow it down to 6mls/sec for 2nd run)

where abouts is the breather located on my still, and how do i go about removing it?

what is the dis-advantages of using my still in it's current form.
thanks for the feedback guys!

[Caprimulgus]

($350 quarterly!) so i definately don't want to use any more water than i need to.

Wow, you just made me feel better. Our spring water is at least free Thanks for your answer.

[olddog]

Down under water is a scarce commodity and you pay for it BIG TIME


OD

[Caprimulgus]

I believe you. Here, there's lakes and ground water everywhere (almost). So some old farms and smallholdings still have like.....dug out, stone clad wells that are only 3-4 meters deep sometimes. The water in our well is BEAUTIFUL quality. But if you say, take two baths and run the washer in the same day it goes *slurrrrrp* in the well and you have to wait to the next day for more. Also, we don't have running water. We use a hand pump on the well outside and carry our water into the house in buckets. So recyceling cooling water is a good idea for me Now, where did I put that car radiator........?

Thanks again guys.

[snark92]

Beeradd,
makes the nicest vodka.
i give my friends a try of my vodka, and of course they're expecting the usual homebrew crap. but everyone that has had a go of it is genuinely suprised at it's quality.
Quotes from your initial post.
Then why do you want to wreck it?
I have noticed throughout this this site, & your replies are a good example, that many with good intentions give suggestions, advice & expert comments about the most nit picking things.
They can't even decide what kind of still it is or will try to baffle you with physics or chemistry.
Listen to all but believe yourself.

[Austin Nichols]

I have noticed throughout this this site, & your replies are a good example, that many with good intentions give suggestions, advice & expert comments about the most nit picking things.
They can't even decide what kind of still it is or will try to baffle you with physics or chemistry.
Listen to all but believe yourself.

Could you please elaborate?

I think your having a go at this site, but, I'm a bit confused as to what your point is.

Cheers.

[Manback]

hey manback, thanks for the suggestions mate.
im pretty certain my element is only 1100 watts. it is stamped on the black part of the element itself.
i found the valve quite easy to get the recommended ml/per second, really smooth and light when i make tiny adjustments.( i run at 11mls/sec for 2/3rds of run and slow it down to 6mls/sec for 2nd run)

beeradd,

Ideal vapor speed for fractionation in the column is is like 15" (381mm) inches per second, according to The Compleat Distiller (which is a bit of a bible when it comes to distillation). Vapor is pushed up the column by vapor below it, so we can deduce from this that we basically want the boiler to generate 381mm worth of vapor in the 1.5" OD (~35mm ID) column per second. So, first we have to calculate a volume:

= (35 / 2)^2 * 3.14 * 381
= 366379mm^3
= 366.4mL

The stainless scrubbers packed inside the column take up about 15% of the column, so:

= 366.4 * 0.85
= 311.4mL

So, we wanna generate about 311.4mL of vapor from the boiler per second. That equates to 18.684 litres of vapor per minute (311.4 * 60 / 1000). It's been shown that 1kW generates about 46L vapor per minute from a mix of alcohol and water. So, to calculate the required wattage:

= 21.982 / 46
= 0.406kW
= 406W

In other words, you basically only want to be running about 400W. You might lose a bit to the atmosphere, and you might wish to run it a bit faster, but realistically you don't want to be running anywhere near 1100w on your column.

From this you can calculate your take-off rate using your reflux ratio. Reflux ratio refers to how much you are returning to the column in relation to how much you are taking off as product. This is controlled, obviously, by the ball valve which controls take-off. To explain further if you wanna run the reflux ratio at 4:1, you return 80% of the 19l to the column, and take off the other 20% through the valve. We divide vapor volume by 500 for liquid volume, so at those levels 37.4mL of liquid is being generated by the boiler each minute. In order to take 20% of this you'd be taking 7.5mL per minute. At a RR of 2:1 you'd be taking 1/3 of the total volume, or about 12.5mL per minute. You'd probably want to run the RR between these two values.

where abouts is the breather located on my still, and how do i go about removing it?

On the fractionating column, go to the top. The "head" of the still is a piece of 4" tube, about 15cm or so long. Up near the top there is a little 90-degree elbow welded into the side, with plastic tube running down to the product condenser. This is the breather. Disconnect it. Basically, the condenser coil in the top should be condensing EVERYTHING - but if it was, why would it need to be hooked up to the condenser? Nothing should be getting out of it anyway right?

Well, in this case wrong, at least at the power levels Alex uses - when we ran an Alex 25 with a condenser hooked up to the breather alot made it out the top. With that much getting out, the column won't ever be able to get into equilibrium, and THAT means you can't bring it out pure.

The good news is that at the kind of power levels you should be running (say 400W - 800W), the coil should knock it all down, so you can get away without too many major changes.

what is the dis-advantages of using my still in it's current form.
thanks for the feedback guys!

Basically - you're gonna find it hard to get clean spirit. The breather change shouldn't be a huge deal provided you adjust the power levels, as most likely no vapor will make it out the top then anyway.

The biggest change is just to drop the power, and slow your take-off rate down. I know slowing it down sounds gay, but realistically pulling 1.2lt/hour of clean neutral out of a 1.5" by 28" column is just not feasible.

Well, that's my take on it - I guess the only way for you to decide if I'm right is to try it out. Give it a go, I reckon you won't look back even though it's gonna make runs take longer.

Oh, and you can find information on controlling the power input to your boiler around the forums somewhere. Sorry but it's late and can't be bothered looking around at the moment - you know! Hope this has been helpful for ya.

I have noticed throughout this this site, & your replies are a good example, that many with good intentions give suggestions, advice & expert comments about the most nit picking things.

The man got on Google, found this forum, posted pictures of his still and asked for feedback. I reckon maybe he WANTED to know if there were performance improvements he could make.

They can't even decide what kind of still it is or will try to baffle you with physics or chemistry.

As for not being able to decide what kind of still it is.. well, speak for yourself. It's pretty clear in my head. Your bafflement at basic science isn't anyone's problem but your own - just because you don't understand, doesn't mean the intent wasn't to help understand.

[beeraddd]

hey manback. thanks for all that. i've been setting up a new business in the last couple of months, so it has been a wee while since i have checked out this site again.
my head is spinning with your recommendations. i have made over 20 distilations with my still. i have had 4 bad ones out of these, but the alcohol eventually comes good after about 2 weeks. when doing a fraction run i sometimes get lazy and don't pay attention. twice my coolant hose came off and spoilt those runs.
my alchometer is still reading 96% for the 2 liters of alcohol i have left after 11 hours of distilling 20 liters of mash. so i believe this to be a good measure of the stills efficiency.
the biggest quality difference i have noticed is in my last 6 runs. i have changed my turbo yeast brand form still spirits to alcotec. i leave it for a minimum of 4 days and this method always results in a smooth vanilla tasting vodka once watered down to 40%. i don't even use carbon filtering or anything!
i have had quite a few arguments with brew shops over vodka flavourings. why would you need to flavour the product that comes out of your still, when essecially it should be vodka anyway?
i am going to try your suggestions manback. i don't know what the outcome of them well be compared to the product the still produces in it's current form. but i might be surprised and get an even better tasting product.

[The Baker]

(snip)
We use a hand pump on the well outside and carry our water into the house in buckets. .

(snip)

My uncle did that, carried water in from a well and from a tank collecting rain from the roof.
When we married we moved into a house with no electricity or town water supply and we carried water in buckets too.
First thing I did was run a garden hose from the tank on its four-foot stand, into the kitchen and the bathroom and put taps on the end.
When Uncle saw it his mouth dropped open in amazement. "To think", he said, "of the years we carried water ..."

Maybe you could do something like that, even hand-pump into, say, a 55-gallon (US) drum on some sort of stand
(sit it on another drum with a board or a couple of smaller boards between so that it sits securely...)
and stick a hose from it to a tap in the kitchen.
But then I'm lazy....


Edit: Of course a stainless tank or a purpose-made rainwater tank is better but you would find one of those in due course...

[Caprimulgus]

A bit Ot maybe. But yes that would work, half the year. Right now my oil drum water reservoar outside is solid ice. I have a nother 100 liter stainless mixing bowl indoors in my hallway right now, whith a thin crust of ice. Which I'm using now. House hold water....naaaa...only use two buckets a day, two persons. But I wouldn't call you lazy. Only labor economical

[mozzie26]

A bit Ot maybe. But yes that would work, half the year. Right now my oil drum water reservoar outside is solid ice. I have a nother 100 liter stainless mixing bowl indoors in my hallway right now, whith a thin crust of ice. Which I'm using now. House hold water....naaaa...only use two buckets a day, two persons. But I wouldn't call you lazy. Only labor economical

You better go stick another log on the fire!

[Caprimulgus]

No use in wasting energy in rooms I'm never in