1" Worm Coil problem ????

[corny]

O.k. Guy's i know anythings possible BUT .....

If my 1" worm coil has a "sag" in it, would it smear the whole run ????? worse than normal???
The worm was "Pulsating a little" on the discharge. leading me to think it was backing up , after the run I took the airhose and blew air threw the worm, about a 1/2 cup of distillate came out.

Running a Keg Potstill on propane w/ copper all the way.

I did a Sugar run today, (first time) & it was junk all the way ( I know it was gonna be thrown out anyway But...)
I did two cleaning runs yesterday & I was trying to learn about the cuts ....

Had alot of acetone smell , then turned into almost a solvent w/ a definate whang taste like colongne & mean streak BITE/BURN.......the distillate would burn blue everytime I tried it. It never even got close to shine !!
I kept the burner pretty low took over an hour before anything was coming out of the worm.

How much distillate would a 5 gallon wash make ( APPROX,) I stopped at 4 litres.

There sho is alot of work to Shinnin' BUt it's sho interesting !!
Thanks guy's

[Kentucky shinner]

I personally have never run a worm, but I do know if you were running hard and throwing lots of heat to it. The whole run will be smeared. Running a 5 gallon wash in my opinion if your running a pot still should have never been more than fast drips. Any more and I think your run will be smeared.. Im sure many with more experience than I will be along and set me straight no problem though.
How fast were you running?
KS

[Mr.Spooky]

O.k. Guy's i know anythings possible BUT .....

If my 1" worm coil has a "sag" in it, would it smear the whole run ????? worse than normal???
The worm was "Pulsating a little" on the discharge. leading me to think it was backing up , after the run I took the airhose and blew air threw the worm, about a 1/2 cup of distillate came out.

Thanks guy's

i think that the sag would do this...... i dont know for a fact,,,, but it seems like i read something about this today
spook

[corny]

Well I had a steady drip, but not a stream........ I have no idea how"fast" is too much hahhaa

I was wondering even if I was at a slow drip if the worm has a "sag" would it not take more heat/vapor to push past it ??? IDK ...
Thx Corny

[Kentucky shinner]

I would say you were fine on the take off rate then. I would say your problem may be the sag..

[Tater]

If ya fill barrel slowly ya will find low spot in worm.They will gurgle and spit if theirs a trap in way their run.Shouldn't affect run other then that id think.

[corny]

If ya fill barrel slowly ya will find low spot in worm.They will gurgle and spit if theirs a trap in way their run.Shouldn't affect run other then that id think.

AHhh thx, ya'll

I never thought about the slow fill /check the level on the coil Tater .. good call.
I do have a sag for sure, if its about gurglin & spittin'
I'm really wondering though if the distallate comes down the worm and hits a "trap" that was junky/methanol that it could carry on through the complete run/ little by little .... just sayin'

[Dnderhead]

what you git out is a percentage of what you put in, so with out knowing what you put in and what percent you take off .
no one can tell. as for the sharp taste Id say git away from the sugar ,mite be ok for reflux stills not so good for pots.
as far as some fores being trapped in the worm ,possible but the next bit would push it out.

[lateralus]

If ya fill barrel slowly ya will find low spot in worm.They will gurgle and spit if theirs a trap in way their run.Shouldn't affect run other then that id think.

Great advice. I just finished building my first out of 3/4" in a 20gal bucket and was confused as to why it was gurgling during my cleaning run. I then got the bright idea to fill up the 20gal bucket with water and watched as the water rose slowly over the coils. Sure enough, I had one whole side that was about 1/2" higher than it should have been.

[blanikdog]

Well done Lat. For a bloke who has only made two posts in here you seem to have a good grasp of the process and are well able to sort out little problems. You'll soon get cuts under control with your new pot.

Stay safe

[corny]

what you git out is a percentage of what you put in, so with out knowing what you put in and what percent you take off .
no one can tell. as for the sharp taste Id say git away from the sugar ,mite be ok for reflux stills not so good for pots.
as far as some fores being trapped in the worm ,possible but the next bit would push it out.

Dnderhead it was 1.090 start ferment and a 0.990 when finished. @ 12% and I think your right about the sugar wash. I just didnt wanna ruin my UJSSM mash thats ready to go...........as I knew it would be a throw away run.

Can't wait to do something right for a change in this new hobby !!

[Dnderhead]

that's easy even as a hillbilly , 12% =.12X the amount =amount of alcohol in wash.you can figure out how much your yield should be.

[corny]

that's easy even as a hillbilly , 12% =.12X the amount =amount of alcohol in wash.you can figure out how much your yield should be.

Still workin on my Hillbilly skills D...

So is the amount in gallons, litres, qts, ?? I don't get it

[Samohon]

that's easy even as a hillbilly , 12% =.12X the amount =amount of alcohol in wash.you can figure out how much your yield should be.

Still workin on my Hillbilly skills D...

So is the amount in gallons, litres, qts, ?? I don't get it

If you have a 30L was @ 12% abv then the amount of alc collected will be 3.6 Liters @ 100%..
Put through a Pot still with the average output being 55% abv will yeild 6545 Liters @ 55%...

Since we took our volumes in liters, we will stay with them...
It can also be accomplised using Gal/Fl Oz/Qt's, whatever your comfortable with...

The Sum:
Total wash x abv of wash / average output...

We never take all the alcohol from a wash, but with this basic formulea, you should be able to work out how much (approx) your gonna get...
This allso helps when doing cuts on your still...

I'm on a 9th generation of UJSSM and I can take the cuts very precisely with this method, knowing previously from notes,
where and at what volume I cut to hearts/tails, ect...

Hope this helps man...

[Tater]

http://homedistiller.org/sugar/wash-sugar/yield" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[goinbroke2]

Just to add my 2 cents, my worm isn't perfect and does gurgle/spit a bit. When I first made it, it was worse and spit more, never a steady stream. I fixed it a bit and now it's steady (er) and doesn't really spit at all. Still gurgles though as the heat is building and yes I blow out 50ml or more when I use the air hose after a run.

If your smearing, your running too fast.

How fast should you run? Slow drip and see how the cuts are. Next time a bit faster, check cuts. Next time faster again...etc.
You'll find the happy medium.

The only question I would have is, a keg on propane and your coil is 1" dia copper tube??

That's a honking big coil! (mines 1/2")

[still crazy]

If your worm is gurgling the problem isn't in the worm.
The worm is only a conduit.
The problem could be 1) too much heat and your wash is boiling up into your column/head and therefore stalling when it hits the worm
2) your wash is too high in your boiler and thus causing it to cause above
3) your restriction is too small to handle the amount of vapor as it turns back to liquid in the worm
The main concern I would have is if its gurgling that may mean pressure and that pressure at the worm discharge could be lost product not fully condensing or your good stuff going to the angles.
Also alcohol vapor is flammable SAFETY FIRST

[Tater]

If your worm is gurgling the problem isn't in the worm.
The worm is only a conduit.
The problem could be 1) too much heat and your wash is boiling up into your column/head and therefore stalling when it hits the worm
2) your wash is too high in your boiler and thus causing it to cause above
3) your restriction is too small to handle the amount of vapor as it turns back to liquid in the worm
The main concern I would have is if its gurgling that may mean pressure and that pressure at the worm discharge could be lost product not fully condensing or your good stuff going to the angles.
Also alcohol vapor is flammable SAFETY FIRST

And if ya think this could be the problem just stick a bit of copper mesh in end of worm.the slight restriction will usually stop that if that's whats causing it.

[goinbroke2]

1) no
2) no
3) hell no

I can tell the difference between the chips rattling and the keg coming up to temp and the sound a syphon hose makes when you blow through it and there is a bit of liquid in there. It's not a big deal, it's a little gurgling or bubbling sound. Before I fixed the worm it sounded exactly like taking a garden hose with a bit of water in it and blowing. It blows clear after the first "gurgle". When you stop blowing and start again it gurgles then blows free. Instead of 1 second then blowing free I fixed mine so it's 1/10th of a second then blows free (for example).

And, with fixing it so it is easier to blow through, I noticed my output smoothed out. Instead of a trickle then gush/trickle/gush, it's more steady. An observation after the fact. Dangerous? Not at all. Pressure build up? Well humans can only blow a pound or two and that is WAY more than required to keep it clear so no, I don't think there is any appreciable pressure build up. (<2lb's)

And, there is CERTAINLY no product loss to angels etc! Like I said in another thread, my worm could cool the Point Lepreau nuclear plant!

My point is, if the worm is not perfect, as long as it is clear (no kinks) then product will be knocked back to liquid. As far as smearing or dragging heads into heart etc, not saying it couldn't happen, but I would be more suspect of the speed your running. Even in a parrot (which holds a lot more than a couple of bent coils could) barely changes the smearing level. I've noticed that instead of a definate cut off from one 500ml bottle to the next, with a parrot it drags over two 500ml bottles. And that is just traces in the bottle "after" the usual cut off point. I use 1" tube for the parrot and 1/2" tube to drain it. In other words, probably 3-400ml. If THAT produces a bit between two bottles, the 50ml that might build in a sagging coil would not be noticed. (in my opinion of course)

And is it just me or is anybody else shocked by the diametre of the tube he's using in his worm?
ONE INCH??

[still crazy]

Here is the test
Disconnect your worm
Blow it out to make sure theres no trapped liquid in it
Make sure the worm is aligned the way it would be during a run
Pour a quart of water thru it with a funnel
Catch the water as it exits the worm
Did you catch a quart coming out ???

If not your worm has a low spot
It should be pitched downward toward outlet<<< gravity flow

That low spot will cause pooling in the worm and then the pressure will have to build up and blow, build up and blow, build up and bl...... you get the idea!

[Tater]

I use 3/4 on mine and would used 1 1/8 if Id had the elbows day I was building..Bigger the worm harder ya can run still to a point.Long as ya have a way to get it cool. Ive seen where using bigger pipe and not enough cooling cause ya to have to put mesh in end to slow vapor down enough to condense though.

[goinbroke2]

Ummm...we're saying the same thing. Yes a sag/bent/whatever will cause liquid to pool and require pressure to blow it out instead of freely running out. Agreed.

What I'm saying is, if your coil is perfect or not, that won't cause smearing. The amount that will build up in a coil is so small, it can't/won't accumulate enough to cause smearing. It will cause spurting,noises,whatever, but smearing is caused by running too hard. Hell I've ran wide open (because my worm will take it) and had tails THROUGHOUT the run. You could tell the difference between the cuts, but there was an aftertaste of tails throughout.
Smearing is caused by either running too hot/fast or by large accumulations (like a parrot). Small accumulations (like a few sagging coils) will not do it.

If it was a 2" pipe it still wouldn't matter because it would be directly proportional to the amount flowing in the first place. A gallon of heads in a huge coil wouldn't matter to the 200 gallons running through for example.

Anyway, instead of going in circles, I'll end by saying he should try a slow run next and see if that solves his problem.

[Tater]

Heh agreed -running to hard in anything but stripping run is a waste of time not time saved.

[goinbroke2]

I use 3/4 on mine and would used 1 1/8 if Id had the elbows day I was building..Bigger the worm harder ya can run still to a point.Long as ya have a way to get it cool. Ive seen where using bigger pipe and not enough cooling cause ya to have to put mesh in end to slow vapor down enough to condense though.

I agree Tater, and I think I found that point with Candy. I've got way more cooling power than required and now I have way more heating power than required. What I ended up with is a fast heating keg with ice cold output. The problem appears to be I have too small of a keg now. (yes I need to turn down the power but I'm commenting on it, as it is right now)

Massive coil, EVERYTHING comes out cold.
Massive power, EVERYTHING comes out steam.
Massive coil and power and the wash rises to 212F faster than alcohol can boil off and you have output that is boiled wash. IE, wash heated to boiling, condensed, cold wash as output.

I just though of another solution..larger wash! I've seen used hot water heaters on the side of the road in the sub division....hmmm..clean it out...170L capacity....

[myles]

There is a document by Robert Leaute, "Distilation in Alambic", 1989 that talks about Cognac.

Essentialy they use a pot still with a charge of 660 gallons. The condenser is a worm in bucket type, but the worm is 220 foot long in a 1300 gallon bucket.

On the spirit run they collect 185 gallons of hearts in 6 hours. That is 116 litres / hour from a pot still with a 6" diameter neck.

By my rough estimates if you scale that down to a smaller pot with a 2" diameter neck it is the equivalent of collecting at 13 litres per hour. Much faster than I run.

[myles]

As for the issue of coils. In my opinion you should always build them rigid with some sort of spacer between the coils to maintain slope angle and prevent those low points.

Here are some of mine.

[Samohon]

Darn nice worms myles...

[still crazy]

I think your the only guy I could say he had worms to and not be offended by it.
Sweet work man made me dizzy tracing coils.

[Mr.Spooky]

bottom line::::::: shit roles down hill.
spooky

[Samohon]

bottom line::::::: shit roles down hill.
spooky