SOME ONE PLEASE HELP HELP HELP !!!

brewster14 · Post by **brewster14** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:26 am

yes i am using a reflux still, and i have made probably 20 or so batches now...they all seem to have a funny odor and taste....and when you pour it over ice you can see a film or oily substance...i have ask about this a 100 times and have tried everyone suggestions i.e. mash recipe, fermentation period,letting the mash clear, temps when distilling, making several cuts in small mason jars (the first cut is no different in smell or taste then the middle cuts or the very last cut....it all comes out the same....im getting a very clear spirit at about 93%abv b4 dilluting but i can not get rid of the funny taste....i filter thru a column filled with carbon at a very slow drip....i believe the longer it stays in contact with the carbon the better....but when it drips into my collector, i virtually have the same product as i put in the filter...i am lost as what to do....my thought now is, could i send a sample to one of you pros out there and maybe by tasting my product someone can tell me what i am doing wrong
(is it safe to send a spirit...legally i mean...i dont want my ass to end up in jail ) please help...i love this hobby and spend a ton of time with it, but what good is it if you cant enjoy a nice neutral spirit on ice ???

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:09 am

that taste, odor and oil must be 'fusel oils'
do you remove tails-heads?, yes?, then remove more then you normally do.

stoker

brewster14 · Post by **brewster14** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:19 am

the cuts in the middle of the run look and smell the same as the heads and tails

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:24 am

how long is your column?
and do you make an equilibrium (100% relfux) before you start to collect anything?

stoker

column height · Post by **column height** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:30 am

i believe its 54" i bought it from "mile high" i am a newbie to this and you completely lost me on the "and do you make an equilibrium (100% relfux) before you start to collect anything"
please explain...thanks scott

brewster14 · Post by **brewster14** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:35 am

http://www.milehidistilling.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow[/img][/list][/url]

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:08 am

you might not be able to do that with that still

it means: cool your spirit with the cooler in your column (everyting), but I think that tube isn't enough to cool everyting, so 100´will not be possible

others: is that equilibrium sting necessery?

i'm a newbie too,

Shooter · Post by **Shooter** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:24 am

Are you cutting with distilled water..... I know my tap water is high in limestone and if I ise it my spirit turns cloudy. Also when you run it through the carbon make sure the carbon is clean and that you have cut the water already... or the alcohol will sometime s work in reverse and pull the impurities out the carbon making you spirit nasty.

Shooter

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:47 am

Brewster, are you diluting your spirit before filtering? Is your filter column plastic?

Also, what are you using for packing in your still column?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:37 am

Is the tube to your collection jar plastic? Is there plastic or rubber anywhere in the path of the alcohol vapor or condensate? If so, get rid of it and replace it with copper or stainless and see if that makes a difference.

brewster14 · Post by **brewster14** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:07 am

yes i am diluting with distilled water, my carbon is clean, i dilute to 40%abv b4 filtering, my filter colmn is pvc purchased from brewhaus, i am packing my column with copper purchased from brewhaus, my tube to my collection jar is 1/2" copper, i was using plastic but not now, everything is copper or ss except for the white rubber plug at the top of the column that holds my thermometer ....guys thanks for the help...please keep trying this is driving me nuts...there has got to be something i am doing wrong....i am expecting for my spirit to taste like one you buy at a liquor store...AM I ASKING TOO MUCH ???

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:30 am

maybe it is that little white rubber plug you mention?
you could just make a copper plug with a how for you thermometer, and use flour/paste to seal it...

i think flour paste should be 2\3 flour and 1\3 water....

Rubber can give of some nasty stuff into your producs, like plasticisers adn some oily stoff i think, so it may explain both the weird taste and the oily surface film...

hope this helps... THorin...

linw · Post by **linw** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:24 pm

brewster14 wrote:the cuts in the middle of the run look and smell the same as the heads and tails

This really speaks volumes. By definition, you clearly have very little separation going on. Sure, you are extracting most of the water as your abv is quite high but the output has all the bad stuff mixed up with the good stuff. You are also getting fusel oils as well so I also presume you must be taking at quite a high head temp.

For your desired result you need quite a slow boil rate (slow vapour speed), a properly packed column of about a metre in length, an ability to control reflux up to 100% and a reflux return path that goes into the centre of the packing.

Your still is problematical for your desired goal. It is a cooling controlled reflux still with cheap and nasty management gear. Those two through tubes are not adequate as they probably don't allow for 100% reflux (tell me if this is wrong) and they certainly don't return all reflux to the centre of the column.

If I were you I would turn this still into a vapour managed still. This could be done quite easily and cheaply. It would entail placing a shrouded reflux coil on the top of the column and adding a gate valve between the column and the Liebig product condenser.

So, my guess is that this still is running too hard and you are taking product quickly into the high temp range. Am I anywhere near right?

Spell out everything you can on how you run it. How do you heat it? What rate does the output come out at? What are the head temps during the run? What is the temp when you stop? Can/do you apply 100% reflux (full water flow with no output) at the start of the run? Plus anything else you can think of pertaining to the run!

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:42 pm

I think linw is on the right track here. Do as he says and post anything and everything you do in a run and I'm sure we can figure out what's going on. I feel bad for you, fusels must taste aweful, I know they smell aweful. You have some sort of seperation issue as linw mentioned.

Brewster14, why don't you sign up for membership, much easier to keep track of you and your posts if you do.

TRANSPLANTED HILLBILLY · Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:43 pm

It's gotta be in how its run. I have tatsed neutral spirit made from this still, and it is clean. I didn't ask anything about the running of it, but I know it can do the job. I have the split column model and use it as a pot still. Get satisfactory results with it. Learn a little more about makin' every time I run.

Sound like too much heat to me, for what its worth.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:54 pm

Sounds like to much heat to me also. Everyone is bound to have run their setup too fast at some point...it's the only way you know not to do it again. When was the last time the packing was cleaned and given a good vinegar soak?

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:40 pm

I was just thinking about something else. This type of column with the trough tubes would be really difficult to pack properly with copper mesh, getting it between the tubes and all. It would be a lot easier to pack with rashing rings or bits of 1/4" copper pipe the same size as the small rashing rings.

duds2u · Post by **duds2u** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:01 pm

Brewster,
I think these guys are on the right track with your temps being high. How long does it take you to distil a wash?
Cheers
Mal T

Ricky · Post by **Ricky** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:00 pm

i would have to agree linw. the only other thing that i could thing of would be the possibility of bad yeast. i have never heard of this but i know different types of yeast have different flavors. if you have only ss and copper in your still and in the vapor path then linw idea should fix it. if it doesn't then you have to look at your mash ingrediants.
i wish you luck,
Ricky

possum · Post by **possum** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:11 pm

Have you tried running extra cold water through the through tubes? The action of the cooling tubes is what is going to increase the purity of your product(unless you modify to vapor management).Try to put the through tubes and the condenser on seperate water lines, most importantly, run as much water as cold as posible through the through tubes. This is your best option (in my opinion) without modifying your device. Also heed the advice pertaining to getting good packing, this will also help.

Good luck getting your spirit cleaned up.

DBM · Post by **DBM** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:09 pm

brewster14;
Something besides copper or glass is coming into contact with your vapor or your distillit. I suspect your packing in your reflux tower is not copper mesh. However I did see this same thing happen to a guy one time and found out he was using a proof tester (or measurer, whatever) and it was made of some kind of hard clear plastic (looked like glass) and his 190 proof joy juice was melting his tester.
Go back to basic rule #1 nothing comes into contact with your vapor or distillate but copper & glass, and if it can't be avoided stanless steel.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:15 pm

I agree with linw all the way. But, I also don't like the Idea of that gum stopper at the top fo the MileHi equipment.

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:51 pm

linw has the best advice so far. I agree with him 100% , back off the heat and the flavours will disapear. If you want to run a whiskey run it abit faster. A neuteral spirit take lots of time to seaperate, including a long equilibrium. I leave mine in full reflux for 45 mins, then run long and slow. Its not unusual for a 40 liter spirit run (2nd run, high proof in the boiler) to last 24-36 hours.

Do quick hot stripping runs, collect enough stripped washes for a big spirit run. let the spirit run go slow with a gentil boil and lots of reflux (depending on your boiler size it can take up to 36 hours to do a clean run leaving no need for carbon). A 40 liter spirit run may take a long time to collect enough stripped runs and a day or so for the 2nd run, but the total output collected is enough booz to keep you licked 24/7 for 3-4 months!

Its the first batch that is hardest, due to the waiting time. After that its just a cycle of replenishment...

stillman · Post by **stillman** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:13 am

From my limited experience I have learned that the white rubber stoppers are easily compromised by the higher concentrated alcohol. I have lab glass Beakers that I used to collect the foreshots and heads in. I stopped them with the white rubber plugs and in after a little while the rubber would be stuck to the glass. This is at room temperature.

At distilling temp and with hot alcohol vapor it has to be a lot worse.

possum · Post by **possum** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:26 am

stillman's warning is a good place to start ---removing rubbber from vapor stream.

Instead of just running your spirit through the carbon filter, try adding carbon to spirit after dilluting to about 40-50%abv, and let it sit in a jug for a week or so. THEN...filter the carbon out, and run it through your still again...you can filter or carbon treat again if you choose. The second running should go slow like captian moron sugested. I think you will get things coming out nicer if you take these measures.

Good luck brewster14

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