to: LINW and KNUCKLEHEAD

[brewster14]

thanks guys for your help...i will try to explain everything i do, the best i can....i love this hobby and want to get it right...but 1st i must say, i cant believe "mile high" could sell me a still that doesnt do what its suppose to do...thats BS, especially considering what i paid for the damn thing...anyway, i am putting my ability to become a good distiller in your hands...DO YOU FEEL THE PRESSURE ?? ha ha
ok, i have always done a 25L wash.. i use prestige turbo vodka yeast ... i disolve 6 to 7 kg of sugar in 2 gallons of hot water (in the fermenter)..then i fill the balance of the fermenter with room temp water...all water that i use is either distilled, or lately i have been using water that i have run thru a 'britta" filter....at the right temp i pitch the yeast and stir until disolved...then i cover (and use an airlock device) and wait about 6 to 7 days until my hydrometer says the mash is ready...then i carefully siphon the mash into a carboy making sure not to disturb the crap at the bottom....then i let sit for several more days until clear...almost like a very light lemonade color....then i siphon into my boiler again being very careful not to disturb what has settled at the bottom...hope you got it so far ?????? at that point ...i roll about 1 ft. long copper packing (from brewhaus) into plugs and stuff them into my column not very tight, but enough of them that i fill my column...then at the top, i try to wrap copper around the cooling tubes the best i can...then i put the white rubber stopper with the thermometer onto the top of my column and i start to heat my mash...my heat source is a 1100W hot plate...i was having a problem with the hot plate recycling, so in between the hot plate and the wall outlet i installed a motor speed controller which has allowed me to keep a good constant temp(i was having problems with my temp falling and rising every time the hot plate recycled ) i still have a little bit of that going on so my next batch i am insulating my column (when i say a little problem, i mean maybe my temp, will range between 79c down to 75c...maybe this is a issue) anyway most of my distilling i can hold right at 78c...when the temp reaches 78c i start to get a drip or sometimes i get a stream about like the lead of a pencil....i throw away the 1st 50ml the next 400ml i put in a mason jar and use with my next run....at that point i start the collection in seperate 1 ltr jars, that i collect until half full then i go to the next jar and so on and so on....the last 2 jars i call them tails and put them in the same jar with the heads....the whole distilling process takes about 6hrs....the only thing i did not mention and i should have, is i do a stripping run with no packing...i reconnect the hoses so i am basically using my still as a pot still...i do a quick run until the the temp reaches about 97c and then i shut it down....there is some confusion on my part and about half the people out there whether you should dillute b4 you distill or not dillute...i have been dilluting, but this batch that i am going to do tomorrow i will not dillute...since there is no element in my boiler, IS THAT THE ONLY REASON TO DILLUTE ?? well i guess thats it...then i go thru the filtering process, which i wont explain because i think that is only masking the real problem i have ...i hope i have made some sense to ya'll...please ask any question that i may not have covered in my explanation and again i really appreciate your time...scott from dallas

[Big Shooter]

A britta filter doe not get out all the impurities.... I know I have tried ... it stil leaves limestone in my water so when I cut the alcohol it turns cloudy.... goto walmart and buy some real distilled water 64 cents a gallon.


Also your copper packing needs to be rolled up from 4 ft sections not one foot.... That might be your problem.... you don't have enough packing...

Also you are running you still to fast and if you are shutting down at 97c your getting tails in you alcohol which is causing it to turn cloudy...

When you are making a final run the spirit hould come out about one drip per second.... and your temp should stay very stable... mine starts out at 77 until i get the fourshots off.... then it will it sit at 78 and steadly climb until 83 then it rockets to 92 or so and i know its time to switch collection containers..... I have a thermometer that measures in tenth degrees so it makes it alot easier to stablize...

As far a diluting the bascis of making alcohol it to get it as pure as possbile.... hence we are all trying to achieve 95% then you dilute it down.... if you dilute before distilling you are really doing ithing but making that much more liquid to heat up.....

Distilling is simple...... you are boiling off the alcohol at 78c (water boils at 100) so why dilute before.... Counterproductive... Distill and try to acheive 95% (takes patience to get it right) the dilute to what ever percent with distilled water then carbon filter if you so desire.


Remeber a still is like yer girlfriend..... you have to get to know it first before you can get the goods..... after that its easy.....

But don't expect to get it perfect right out of the gate..... it takes awhile...
but then its like riding a bike..

Cheers

Shooter

[knuklehead]

Brewster, what size column is on your still. If it is a 2" column then you should use for sure 4' of brewhaus mesh but that's not your problem. Also if it is a 2" column you don't need the motor control, you can run the hotplate wide open and your column will handle it, but that's not your problem either. Your problem is just as linw suggested. You have no separation what so ever, you are getting the good mixed with the bad as he stated. You need to let your column run under full reflux to get an equilibrium inside the column. To do this you need to supply the reflux condensers with all the cooling water so that nothing gets by them at all. Your boiler should will be heating and your reflux condensers will knock the vapour back down. So, for a half hour or a full hour your still should be running but nothing coming out. Don't try and control the head temperature, trying to set your heat input so your temperature settles at 78, that is a backwards and incorrect way of looking at it. Because the boiling point of ethanol is around that it will settle there on its own as long as you are not removing anything form the wash. Once you start to draw off for the first 50 ml take it off at about 1 drop per second to get the forshots separated. Then you can increase your flow to approx 1/4 of your max output which will be around 12 ml per minute. This is where you are going wrong, it doesn't have anything to do with your wash, although I might add that you shouldn't use distilled water for making your wash.

[canadianmoonshiner]

If you don't dilute before distilling you will also have a lower boiling point and your hotplate might not get hot enough to cycle. I say as long as you don't have an internal element to worry about, DON'T DILUTE.

[linw]

I agree with KH (ain't hard as he agrees lots with me!!). I also reinforce that you must not use distilled water in your wash. The yeast needs the minerals and oxygen. Just use tap water (unless it is REALLY awful, in which case, use bottled water).

Also agree, pack that column tight as you can. You can't overpack good mesh. But, as also mentioned, the reflux has to get into the packing and not run down the sides. The column should also be insulated.

But if you can't get 100% reflux you can't get the column getting the pure ethanol factory going. This is a show stopper.

Heating. This is another biggie. You can't run with the heater cutting on and off. Total no-no. If you have another method of heat control, bypass the on-off thermostat in the hotplate so it can't cut in.

This is how a high purity high abv run should go. It is the combined output of two previous stripping runs. (sorry it is collapsed but hopefully you should be able to get the hang of it).

Time Min ml ml/min ml/hr temp abv
9:30
9:40 0:10 50 5.00 300 77.7
10:02 0:22 500 22.73 1364 77.8 95.0
10:25 0:23 500 21.74 1304 77.8 95.0
10:47 0:22 500 22.73 1364 77.8 95.0
13:50 3:03 4000 21.86 1311 77.8 95.0
14:38 0:48 1000 20.83 1250 77.8 95.0
15:08 0:30 500 16.67 1000 77.8 95.0
15:38 0:30 500 16.67 1000 77.8 95.0
16:30 0:52 1000 19.23 1154 77.8 95.0
17:02 0:32 500 15.63 938 77.8 95.0
17:38 0:36 550 15.28 917 77.8 95.0
18:15 0:37 500 13.51 811 77.9 95.0
19:00 0:45 1500 33.33 2000

Overall 9:30 11550 20.26 1216

Points to note. It spent 55min on 100% reflux getting the temp down to 77.4C. It quickly rose to 77.8 and with adding extra reflux a couple of times during the run it stayed exactly the same temp till the tails were collected. If the temp rises even 0.1C, you have got a separation problem. You must immediately increase reflux to get it down again. Also, note the output rate slows as the run goes on. This also reflects the increased reflux (more going back into the column so less into the jar).

I recycle 1.5 ltrs of heads and 1.5 ltrs of tails for later runs. That left me 8.55 ltrs of middle which cuts to around 20 ltrs at 40%. I don't need to filter this.

So, you can alter some of your parameters to get a better separation but I have grave doubts about the cheapo cooling tubes. (Another problem is that they make contact with the column walls so these get cooled around the tubes so condensation on the column walls goes straight down the wall and not into the packing). To my mind, this is the greatest limitation.

But fix the packing, insulate the column, fix the heating and try to get the right reflux ratio to keep the temp steady and you should see an improvement.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[knuklehead]

I hate to say this to you brewster but the through tube still design is not the best. I've never used one but I don't see how you can get a good solid equilibrium by cooling the bottom and the top of the column. I think you should consider a suggestion that linw made earlier. Here is a little modification you can do to get better results. Just leave the through tubs intact but don't use them. Insulate the column as suggested and make yourself a reflux coil condenser. Get rid of the rubber bung and slide the coil into the top of the column. Run your coolant using valve so you can run 100% of the coolant to the reflux coil and none to the final condenser. This way you have much more surface area of for cooling you will with not doubt be able to knock down all vapour and have it trickle down the packing. Making the coil with one really low point right in the center so all the condensate will drip down in the center of the packing, if that makes any sense. You would have to drill a new hole for your thermometer a little lower down into the side of the column which is no big deal. Added bonus, you don't need the rubber bung any longer. Anyways, after you have run it under total reflux for a time simply adjust your coolant flow so you are getting 50% to the reflux condenser and 50% to the final condenser or anywhere back and forth and in-between. You'd have to figure out what your maximum output is and adjust your cooling so you are drawing off a quarter of it and refluxing the rest. Simple, inexpensive modification to turn your still into a nice VM unit which will work much better for you. In the end it's really up to you what you do. You can play around with some of the suggestion and then decide what you will do.