Small barrel aging backlash starting

[Samogon]

The whiskey press has started to take issue with micro-distiller's claims that smaller barrels get the same result as large barrels sooner. Good reads, but at the home scale, maybe not practical.

http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2011/06 ... ey-faster/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Especially the comments.

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... ebate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[blind drunk]

Interesting reading, thanks for posting. Seems like it's something we're all grappling with, even us oak sticks in a jar hobbyists.

[hotrod77]

Great reading, and I have to agree after aging in a number of 2 liter barrels. I've found if the spirit ages on glass for a few months after a 2-3 week aging in the barrel it comes out pretty good, but I've never tasted anything that can compare to a couple years or more in a standard size barrel. My white dog is delicious and clean, I've wished a few times I'd have kept it raw after mucking it up with a small barrel. I've also noticed the small barrels aren't very good for multiple batches, you have to double your time on the oak to get the same result as the first round of aging. I hope the micro movement realizes this and doesn't try to move to the market to fast with inferior products, nor do I hope they succumb to the propagandizing tactics we so often see in the beverage industry. Thanks for the link, good stuff.

[Dnderhead]

its nothing different than Iv said right along.
too small of barrel will just flavor and cover up the taste of green whisky.
glass/oak is similar covers the taste,
either way can change with time but not really aging .the biggest changes takes place in 3-5 years ,longer is better up to a point.
after about 10 years it seems to start going the other way.not that after 10 years you throw it out its just different.
that is why you you see most whisky aged for 10 years or there about,most all the "aging" that its going to do has taking place.
beyond that its mostly bragging rights.similar to the 200 year old wine.
NO ONE has came up with a way to speed this up other than heat,heat about doubles the time compared to one that is aged in cold.
I thank this is because acids are more active in warm climate.but i mite be wrong.

[Bagasso]

They just have to do the chemical analysis and see how it compares to older whiskey in a larger barrel. That would end the debate. Probably screw up a lot of the big boys marketing which is probably why it isn't done.

[LWTCS]

Long as they don't mis represent the product or more specifically,,,,,,as long as they accurately describe the product,, and price the product accordingly,,,,I figger there is plenty of room for all the available products......
But I'm easy to trick.

[raildog]

I don't really know what to make of this small barrel question. My way of thinking dictates that smaller barrels should have a much lighter char.
I recently bought myself a 5 gallon Gibbs but now am reluctant to put my white dog in it as I don't want to ruin 5 gallons of white liquor by over oaking it. I'm doing my last spirit run tomarrow and maybe a feints run. Kinda wishing now I would have given more thought to this or requested a light char on my barrel from Gibbs. Any thoughts or advice guys? I've read that just a few weeks (maybe 3) is all you want to leave your liquor in these small barrels, seems like a waste of money now.

[Dnderhead]

use it,just sample every month or so, product in 5 gallon barrel shuld take about 5 months.
or shuld say 5 months is about like 1 year.

[Glock19Fan]

RAILDOG-

A couple of years ago I bought a barrel just like yours from Gibbs. It was a 5 gallon oak barrel, and I requested a medium char. I filled it with rum, and watched over it for a period of about 6 months.

Admittingly, one of my last runs was heavy on the tails end, so the whole batch was a little harsh. After 3 months in the barrel, the rum seemed to have the perfect balance of color and smell, but the rum itself was still a little rough becuase of my initial distilling mishap. However, I believe that had I not made that mistake, the 3 month mark probably would have been the time to pull it.

I checked on it again after 4 months, and was impressed, but wanted the rum to smooth out a little more. I went the next two months without checking on it, and after a total of 6 months, I thought the rum was ruined. Very dark and wayyy over oaked. I ended up passing it through some loose activated charcoal, which pulled a little bit of color and the extra oak flavor, and in the end it made a good product. Dont take any of this in a way that Gibbs made an inferior product. The barrel was great. I just made a mistake in collecting my spirits and a mistake in judgement.

After this, I filled the same barrel up again, and aged for a full 6 months. This time the result was a wonderful rum. Much lighter and softer than the first batch, but still had the sweet taste and smell of the charred oak. I ended up coming up with a blend with the first batch and was very impressed with the balance. I have the same barrel filled right now, and wont be able to open it until next year (which will make about 15 months) but when I do I will report the results.

My advice- if it was too much trouble coming up with the 5 gallons of spirt, you can try to age in jars with oak chips in it. On the other hand, you can fill up the barrel, checking on it every couple of weeks, while distilling more to fill it up a second time, or aging it white in jars to blend with the barreled spirit.

[raildog]

thanks for the advice Dunder and Glock. I'm heading out to make cuts on what we ran a couple days ago and run my last of this batch. I'll report back to you both on the results.

[Slow & Steady]

Generally, my 5 gallon casks have aged my bourbon first then moved on to Brandy, Rum, and Single Malt for their "previously used barrel aging" assignments. I taste the new oak in the bourbon and must admit that it is not my preference, however, the second aging which can run much longer (years rather than months) is where these small barrels shine, My rum which went in to the used barrel smelling heavily of Molasses, not rum, has wonderful fruity-ester-rummy notes, that make it a shear pleasure to nose. The flavor has also improved vastly, although more time in the barrel may creat a finer golden rum taste. Same experience with brandy first aged in a new barrel. The Brandy was woody so soon that the long term aging hadn't taken place. Second "use" aging of the same run is producing a finer nose and a more refined taste (the brandy did age quite a bit in the six gallon cardboy wait for its turn in the brandy barrel).

I tried an experiment with the last new barrel I purchased. I filled it with a "sugar run" 5x distiled vodka and let it age for 5 months, it came out a deep amber,very astringent and overly oaked. I then ran it through the still again keeeping nearly all the run as hearts... the result was the finest vodka I have ever produced... still aging it in a carboy but it is by and far the smoothest I have ever made... and that from a nasty old sugar head fermantation.

S&S

[PHANTOM SPIRITS]

Nice read. We use and love are little barrels .it is my thanking that they do age dif.than the big
Bigger ones. But its something I can work whit. And the fact that I can fill one whit one run
Is a plus. Now I did buy two new big boys ,and will take a long time to fill.

[RockinRockies]

This is why I bought two 15's and a 30. Already have the 15 filled with rum, the other half filled with smokey whiskey that will be topped off within a few weeks, and the 30 will be a high rye mash bill.

Used barrels are so cheap and I never liked my oak stick whiskeys even after 4 years.

[OtisT]

I don’t make enough spirits in a batch to consider 5 gallon barrels, let alone 55 gallons. 2 or 3 gallons of finished product is my typical batch size. I have found a way to deal with this subject and make some “mature” tasting spirits in small volumes, but it does not skimp on time.

The theory behind this is that the smaller the (traditional) barrel you have, the more oak per volume contact you have. (Smaller barrels give more oak per volume in the same time as larger barrels.) Badmo barrels have half the oak/volume ratio of a traditional 55 gallon barrel so in theory those are slower (transfer of oak to spirit) at aging than a 55 gallon barrel.

I have had success in creating a mature tasting product in small containers using the following process:
1) First I soak the new make spirits in either a small traditional barrel, 2 liter and 5 liter, or in jars with sticks. I let it go until I have lots of color. With the little barrels, that has been anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. Jar times vary from a month to three. These spirits get a lot of oak smell/taste, but the spirit still smells of new make and there is no mature flavors/smells yet.
2) I put the young spirit into a Badmo and let it sit for a year or more.

I’ve had some great results doing this. A few experienced distillers who tried one of my bourbons made this was were very surprised that what they were tasting was aged in “one of those tiny barrels”.

Otis

[MereCashmere]

Long as they don't mis represent the product or more specifically,,,,,,as long as they accurately describe the product,, and price the product accordingly,,,,I figger there is plenty of room for all the available products......
But I'm easy to trick.

Damn this is the most level headed answer I’ve ever seen on probably any forum, ever.

I absolutely agree. One can’t be better than the other; it’s too subjective. There’s great and awful expressions in all forms of aging, and that’s the only fact.