Plastics

[Uncle Jesse]

from the old message boards:

MyDBear
(member)
09/11/04 08:45 PM
subject: Plastics

Plastic
Plastic is basically fine at the low alcohol end (eg the wash, and even the diluted product), but if possible, try to avoid using it where it is likely to encounter strong alcohol. For alternatives, consider using copper tubing from the condensor to the collection jar, and using glass collection & storage jars.

From Ken Schwartz's page (sorry, link dead) about building a plastic brewing setup ...
... I made sure the buckets were at least 0.090" (90 mils) thick by checking the thickness "rating" embossed on the bucket bottom -- I found that the cheapo 0.070" buckets I experimented with earlier on allowed the element to sag when it got hot, but the 90 mil units I found were just fine. I ended up changing to a 7-gal HLT (see below), same as my boiler. These 7-gal buckets are both 100 mils thick and handle the heat very well.
Wal writes ...
I obtained a cheap used 60l (25 USgal) plastic drum with a band clamp like those on paint tins. Looked more solid than my plastic jug in the kitchen. So I obtained 2, 240V, 1500w electric jug replacement elements which can be easily attached to the drum by simple drilling and screwing tight (from ray@moonshine.co.nz). Converting beer barrels and hot watersystems did not appeal to me - I like easy solutions as I'm not a great handyman. I intend to use two for the initial boil, and then use one for my 40mm diam X 1m column which appears right to prevent flooding.

What plastics are suitable for boiling washes? See: http://www.plasticsusa.com/polylist.html

Appears HDPE and polypropylene are O.K.
Utilization temp (deg. F) for HDPE is -180 to +248 with a melting point of 266.
Utilization temp (deg. F) for polypropylene(PP) is -15 to +266 with a melting point of 338.
Oviously polypropylene is better, but high density polyethylene is acceptable. Plastics are slightly permeable so be careful what they held if purchasing a used one. The inside of my kitchen plastic jug looks vey stained, but then so what.
Not all plastics are great with alcohol at high temperatures. Ken warns ..
The technology of materials is constantly changing but the chemical resistance does not. Food grade, 'Flexible",means modified in most cases and it means plasticisers are compounded into the polymers to make them more flexible,these are not always stable ,especially at elevated temperatures and in contact with alcohol at these elevated temperatures and high concentrations...I do not use any plastic in my operation until I cut it down in strength.
For more about plasticisers, see : http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_hea ... tafull.htm

Ses adds
Tygon tubing should be inert. We used to use it for collecting biological distillates. Alternatively, glass piping could be used, but you would need a bunsen burner and some pretty good skill to "bend it" into shape.
Keith writes ...
You can check chemical compatibility here: http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/ChemComp.asp Cole-Parmer: Chemical Resistance Database : Chemical Compatability
To search, select at least one of three criteria to search on. If you wish to search by compatability level, you must specify a chemical or material.

This helps with identifying different kinds of plastic: American Plastics Council: http://www.americanplasticscouncil.org/ ... esin.html
And this helps even more: http://www.midmichiganspe.org/education ... cation.pdf Society of Plastics Engineers, Mid-Michigan Section Plastics Identification


Yttrium
(member)
09/11/04 10:06 PM
Re: Plastics [re: MyDBear]

Aaper chemical company sells reagent grade ethy alchool in HDPE2 plastic bottles. The whole belief that all plastics disolve at high alcohol content is kinda fishy.


mshinner
(newbie)
09/11/04 10:44 PM
Re: Plastics [re: Yttrium]

The plastic hose coming off my condencer I got from Brewhaus seems to be holding up fine so far.


rebel
(journeyman)
09/12/04 05:44 AM
Re: Plastics [re: MyDBear]

I would be scared to use plastics in my still!

make beer not war


bees
(newbie)
09/12/04 11:07 PM
Re: Plastics [re: MyDBear]

I see no reaon to mess with a good thing. Reinventing the wheel makes no sense to me. I swear that every time I look around they are finding some new toxin that is leaching out of some plastic we thought was safe and have been eating or drinking out of for years. Stainless,glass,wood,copper,tin these things we have had hundreds of years of research on them, and they are very easy to use to make great stills. It is true there is some plastic out there that will stand up to eth.. but I'm not going to be the guy who thought I won a argument about how safe some plastic was on the internet ten years ago and then end up as a premire example in some case study about how nasty it is.


Yttrium
(member)
09/13/04 08:48 AM
Re: Plastics [re: bees]

Hehe, you can take your pick of just about any material and there's a chance that in ten years some harmful effect will be discovered. Hell, lead pipes had over two thousand years of reseach done on them before people realized that lead causes brain damage.


bees
(newbie)
09/13/04 01:30 PM
Re: Plastics [re: Yttrium]

lets not forget our very favorite neuro toxin enthonal

MyDBear
(member)
09/13/04 03:22 PM
Re: Plastics [re: bees]

I agree with you bees and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel I put that post up to show pieterpost that it has allready been done with out good results and that the alcohol might not hurt the plastic at all BUT that the plastic could hurt the alcohol


PieterPost
(newbie)
09/15/04 02:41 AM
Re: Plastics [re: MyDBear]

I have read it with great interest

[BoomTown]

Folks,

the entries on this topic seem to me to be a little long in the tooth...the links have broken, and over the past decade the liquor stores are stocking more and more booze in plastic jugs, rather than glass.

Has something changed about plastic that would make it acceptable now more than before?

BoomTown

[Dnderhead]

from what i understand,,the bottles are coated inside with Teflon?..this does where off after some time..and it is suggested not to reuse .

[Oxbo Rene]

I just seen a documentary on TV the other night about plastics destroying the animal life around the planet.
One thing I saw was about just about all canned goods, including baby bottles are coated with a plastic containing BPA (or something like that)
that has been determined to cause autism and other such things.
I think they have now disallowed its use.
Didn't pay a whole lot of attention except how it (plastic) was killing the marine life.
(I've already given up on human life) ..........

The fellow associated with the Whale Rescue organization put it best when he said something to the effect = If
humans don't fall in line with the order of the rest of the animal life on the planet, the earth will eliminate them.

[heartcut]

Plastic is everywhere. In our food, even up our as... consider that a baby's diaper is wrapped in plastic and so is a Depends. Extracting essence of dead dinosaur with my hootch is something I'd like to skip. I'm sitting on a plastic chair, feet on the plastic carpet typing on- yep.

[Reaper]

Not really sure if this has been asked yet, but is Polycarbonate useable with a still.
This is not to do the boil but only as a clear solution for my porthole in the boiler. I guess it would only have to handle the steam/ vapour in the boiler.
It would be easier than having to get glass cut and toughned for the same purpose.

[blind drunk]

Plastic is everywhere. In our food, even up our as... consider that a baby's diaper is wrapped in plastic and so is a Depends. Extracting essence of dead dinosaur with my hootch is something I'd like to skip. I'm sitting on a plastic chair, feet on the plastic carpet typing on- yep.

Woody Guthrie - Talking Columbia

Makin' ever'thing from sewing machines to fertilizer
Atomic bedrooms!... Plastic!
Everything's gonna be made out of plastic!

[Prairiepiss]

Not really sure if this has been asked yet, but is Polycarbonate useable with a still.
This is not to do the boil but only as a clear solution for my porthole in the boiler. I guess it would only have to handle the steam/ vapour in the boiler.
It would be easier than having to get glass cut and toughned for the same purpose.

No it is not good.

Some Synthetics are ok for fermenting. But not for the distillation process.
Please read the rules we live by. Look closely to #8.

[Reaper]

Thanks Prairiepiss.
I was reading through those rules, but think I may have missed that one.
I think that the porthole will be best in toughned glass, will handle the heat and will not scratch too easy.